SICK PAY Question. Again.

DIRTY_CASH

I am not a happy bunny:mad:

My employer has this "policy" of not paying for days off if they amount to more than 3 instances in one year. I have been aware of this but really now resent what they have done.

I have worked for the same company for 11 years and in the whole of this time I have had 31 days sick - not bad for 11 years and one instance was 1 week due to kidney infection. Over the past year I have not only moved holidays on for this ungrateful bunch when they need cover due to other peoples excessive sickness, lack of staff, extra bus workloads etc but have gone above and beyond the remit of my job description twice covering for other functional areas of the company and departments because I have worked there before.

So far this year i have had 2 days off for tonsilitus, 1 day for a water flare up , half a day due to migraine and now 1 day again for a vomitting / diarrohea bug.

I have had a wonderful letter telling me my sickness bouts have now amounted to more than three instances in one calendar year and are therefore deemed excessive. not only do I have to attend a sickness meeting with manager to discuss this total (3.5 days!!!!!! :mad: :mad: ) I have been docked one day's pay for not coming in to work, vomiting all over my desk, soiling myself and passing out in front of my colleagues. (sorry!!)

Can they take money for days you are not in even if it amounts to 1 day? Shouldn't management discretion be applied in these cases?
Is my boss a complete witch in this case for not using her discretion?

And in this case what on earth is SICK PAY for?

Sorry for the rant.:mad:

Jet

Don't really know a lot about the law on this although I think statutory sick pay is only payable after several days of sickness.

I just wanted to say that I feel for you and what a horrible, unfeeling company you work for. Can you not discuss this with your boss?

Savvy_Sue

Yup, SSP only kicks in after 3 days of sickness, so if this is what your terms and conditions say then your manager is acting correctly in not paying you for the last bout.

Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear ...

DIRTY_CASH

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Yup, SSP only kicks in after 3 days of sickness, so if this is what your terms and conditions say then your manager is acting correctly in not paying you for the last bout.

Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear ...

Thanks Sue - Nope it wasn't.... but its probably my own fault for not taking sufficient sick time off when ill. Rest assured next time I get the lurgy I will take the full week off and if I am unfortunate enough to have 3 instances in a year then the full week will be taken each time. I really thought I was doing the company a favour by coming in as soon as is possible to help out knowing how short staffed they were and I would have thought this would have been noted and some sort of discretion applied.... more fool me. I now know better!:rolleyes:

It just rankles - I though this sort of condition was to weed out serial offenders and malingerers of which I am neither. I beleived it was at my managers discretion.

Oh well....

Savvy_Sue

If the company only pays SSP, then I really wouldn't malinger, because even after the first 3 days you will only get a VERY small amount.

I doubt if the sick pay policy can be at your manager's discretion. It would be too easy for people to complain about discrimination, eg if one manager treats individuals in their team differently, or if one manager treats a team differently to how another manager treats their team. However you could phone HR and check whether there IS any discretion, and especially if there is discretion about the sickness meeting. I am sure the intention is partly to weed out malingerers - it's far easier IMO to swing the lead over the phone than it is in a face to face interview on return (not that I ever have!) but it should also be to see if there is anything the employer can do to prevent or reduce sickness.

I did in my last job have to put someone on a warning for sickness: this person had to be told that their entitlement to full pay was almost exhausted and if they went sick again they'd be down to half pay. However they were also given the chance to see an Occupational Health doctor and I believe that was quite useful. They were a bit of a nightmare to manage for various reasons, but at least in that company HR were willing to help.

DIRTY_CASH

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

If the company only pays SSP, then I really wouldn't malinger, because even after the first 3 days you will only get a VERY small amount.

Thanks Sue - will try that. :A

I just can't help but thinks its her stamping her foot. Last time I spoke to a manager about this confidentially that is - they said it didn't sound right. So I will take your advice and speak to HR to see what they say.

According to our T&Cs the company is supposed to pay full pay upto 5 weeks of sickness then half and so forth at the company's discretion.

For a piddling total of 3.5 days off a year they turn around and say - we aint paying you for one days wage really does sound like a slap in the face.

Savvy_Sue

So have they introduced the 'not paying after the third occurrence of sick leave' in addition to your T&Cs? Because I think they should have consulted you about a change like that.

Whatever the policy is, it should be consistently applied. If HR don't seem to want to be consistent, then talking to ACAS might be worthwhile, or seeing what their site says and quoting it to HR!

CFC

You may be able to appeal the withholding of discretionary company sick pay. Ask to meet with your manager's manager to discuss it, or write to them with the request and your details of length of service and sick record.

Often a discretionary arrangement will pay out when staff have a good record previously, and long service, but have just been 'unlucky'. However junior managers will usually not stick their neck out to request to apply this discretion (moral cowardice and 'safety firstism' being rampant amongst poorly qualified and trained junior managers).

A 'levelling' to ensure that there is no discrimination is likely to be applied at a higher level (who can authorise the discretion part) of management.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

DIRTY_CASH

Thanks all for listening.. an dthanks for the advice.

lexi

DIRTY_CASH wrote: »

I am not a happy bunny:mad:


So far this year i have had 2 days off for tonsilitus, 1 day for a water flare up , half a day due to migraine and now 1 day again for a vomitting / diarrohea bug.

I have had a wonderful letter telling me my sickness bouts have now amounted to more than three instances in one calendar year and are therefore deemed excessive. not only do I have to attend a sickness meeting with manager to discuss this total (3.5 days!!!!!! :mad: :mad: ) I have been docked one day's pay for not coming in to work, vomiting all over my desk, soiling myself and passing out in front of my colleagues. (sorry!!)



Sorry to hear your probs. I too think that your caring boss is in the right what with the 3 day ruling. Most ppl who i used to work with ALWAYS had a week off as at least you got paid AND if you were gonna have 3 strikes & then a warning you may just as well have a week than a day. When i had 8 months off due to my bk & subsequent op i returned to work & was promptly slapped with a stage 1 warning meeting! I laughed until i knew they were serious then sobbed! lol. Anyway had the meeting & although my manager said it was plain daft as there is no way i could have avoided the time off he HAD to do this. It took a lot of explaining about my recovery etc to get me off. Rules are rules i guess but surely common sense should prevail. I mean your sick record is good & it seems to me as tho you were trying your best to avoid going sick. Hope you get on ok, if not try & get a job where you are appreciated a little better!

jobbingmusician

I was at a meeting today when we talked about sickness, and much was made of the fact that 'absence' wasn't defined anywhere. We agreed that it varied widely. In some companies if you are present at 11am, and then go home sick, it is not regarded as absence. In others, if you ring in the morning and say you don't feel well but will try to get in later, and then arrive around lunchtime - or even later - THAT is not regarded as absence. It does seem strange to me that you have had 3.5 days' leave - what happened with the half day? Does your company handbook say anything about this?