Very wrong date on NTK

MA61

Hi all

I have read as many FAQs and stickies as I can and also looked at the legislation and am still not clear on this one, so I am hoping someone can help me please.

I have received a NTK for parking on private land. The NTK has a date quite a long time in the past (i.e. over 56 days). Is this alone grounds for dismissing the claim of the NtK??

Many thanks in advance

bod1467

The NEWBIES sticky thread covers pretty much everything you need to know - including this point (as I recall).

It would be a brave person who used ONLY that point in an appeal.

Redx

no its not grounds for dismissal , sorry

it is an invoice and the company issuing the invoice have up to 6 years to pursue this invoice with the perpetrator (usually the driver) under MCOL

POFA 2012 can make the RK liable in england and wales , if they issue it within the guidelines for POFA on relevant land , otherwise its as I said in the first paragraph

so depending on who issed it, and when , plus why (the details should be on it) will then start the course of your actions from now on

your location is also a factor as I said above

the NEWBIES sticky thread deals with all of this plus has a flowchart to make it easier to understand

but it only "goes away" after 6 years in england and wales (5 in scotland) under MCOL statute

MA61

Thank you both for your prompt replies. I will go again and read the NEWBIES sticky thread again. Sorry I must have missed this point (ironic, as that was the only info I was looking for, oh well )

Redx

people always look for the "easy get out" when it doesnt really exist with private parking invoices

here are the salient points from the newbies thread, for clarity

When you have your NTK (or 'Charge Notice', or 'reminder' or 'PCN' or TNC or PCS debt collector drivel or whatever they call the first letter to keeper):
Compare your postal PCN (NTK) to paragraph 8 or 9 of POFA 2012 (linked below), depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued first or not.
It's an excerpt from a law but it really isn't difficult, please don't just ask the regulars here to check your NTK for you without making an attempt to check it yourself, unless you really need help to read the simple bullet points in paragraph 8 (NTK which follows a windscreen ticket) or paragraph 9 (NTK which serves as the first PCN). Look for omissions in wording or late arrival of the NTK and include those points in your appeal because as the registered keeper you can argue 'no keeper liability' if the PPC have not followed the requirements for a NTK.

However that does not make the ticket 'illegal' it just demotes it to one which is issued under 'old rules and is only potentially aimed at an - unidentified of course! - driver.

- DO complain to the landowner/retailer/Hospital very assertively -


Here's a link to find the BPA 'Code of Practice' which applies to all charges issued by BPA AOS members, whether or not your ticket cites 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012:

If in Scotland/NI:

Apart from (of course!!) complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).* You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):


POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (specifically Schedule 4 as linked below). England/Wales ONLY.

COMPLAINTS:


Always complain to the landowner/retailer very quickly and assertively:

post #15


In simple terms ... POFA2012 provides a means for PPCs to pursue a registered keeper where the driver is unknown. If the requirements of POFA are not adhered to by the PPC then there is no keeper liability and they can only (legally) pursue the driver. (And the keeper is under no obligation to identify the driver).

Whether anyone has won against a PPC on this single point alone I don't know, but that's the legal position.

MCOL doesnt have its own section but you will effectively see MCOL every day on Judge Rinder about landscapers , car sales , dogs , partners splitting up, friends lending friends money or cars or goods etc all kinds of issues that lead to court

these parking invoices are valid for 6 years in E+W due to the small claims court rules for E+W

explained in here too https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5041400

MA61

Redx wrote: »

people always look for the "easy get out" when it doesnt really exist with private parking invoices

Well I suppose its more logical to look for an 'easy get out' than a difficult convoluted one I suppose my reckoning here was that cases sometimes get thrown out of court costing the CPS hundreds of thousands of pounds due to administrative errors during the prosecution, so I didn't think it was too outlandish an idea to ask, but thank you for setting me straight as this will potentially save me an awful lot of grief later on.

I am much clearer now on what I need to do, so thanks for all the responses.

Redx

this is a civil matter so the CPS wont be involved as that is for Criminal cases , so please do not expect any court cases for criminal matters or council tickets regulataions to apply on this purely private matter

you have an invoice from a private parking company for parking on private land, where civil contract law and trespassing etc are what applies , better not to confuse matters and stick to what is factual which I tried to do in my reply.

I see people come on here every week looking for a simple get out of jail free card, not seen one yet but I will keep looking

in the meantime, that is why I sussed your idea out and dismissed it

once you know the game, and hopefully any rules, we will help you to play the game and win

Coupon-mad

As long as this was in England or Wales, you just send the usual appeal in the newbies thread, adding a point D that the letter sent to the keeper was not a Notice to Keeper as defined under POFA 2012 and it arrived far too late, so there is no keeper liability.

And at POPLA stage you use one of the recent 'windscreen ticket' examples that come up when you click 'How to win at POPLA' - that is assuming this is a BPA member not an IPC member? A late NTK isn't 'unlawful' or void or anything, but appealing as keeper where the NTK has arrived too late (and the driver is not identified) is a slam-dunk win for you at POPLA or IAS as long as you word it well. In the case of an IAS appeal you'd need to attach evidence in the form of an annotated copy pointing out the flaws/late date - but in a POPLA case they say the evidence is up to the PPC to produce/refute (so POPLA is easier).

MA61

Hi all

I just wanted to say thank you, both to those who commented on the thread and the people who put the sticky guides up. I submitted my representations electronically early September and still have heard nothing. I am guessing that means I am out of the woods.

Somehow I have managed to get another one in the meantime, in a different car park, that I will also have to appeal against. Got to have something to fill my time

Regards
A

The_Deep

Redx wrote: »

.

I see people come on here every week looking for a simple get out of jail free card, not seen one yet but I will keep looking

Your search is over, see post 11

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=91234&pid=972877&st=0&#entry972877