Letter From Roxburghe

Alex86

Hi guys, forgive me for starting another new thread on this company.

I have recieved a letter from the above named asking for £160.

The vehicle to which i am the registered keeper recieved parking charge notice, for failing to pay and display.
I have moved house and stupidly forgotten to change my address with the dvla otherwise it would have been paied for or appealed before it got to this stage!

So i have this letter from roxburghe demanding money, i have read the newbies guide and right now i am at the debt collector stage due to the point at which i have managed to get the post, i am short on time! As i have read, is it the best course of action to write to the debt collector refusing the debt with the below;

Dear Sir

Ref : ****

I deny any debt to Roxburghe Ltd

Refer this matter back to your client and cease and desist all further contact with me.

Yours faithfully

Then to contact the parking company and appeal, explaining the situation and mention that when the ticket was issued the car park was with empty spaces and so the landowner hasn't suffered any financial loss as a result of the parking without a ticket?

If worst comes to worst ill pay for the ticket itself but would rather avoid the £160 that roxburghe are charging.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Coupon-mad

If worst comes to worst I'll pay for the ticket itself

No, you won't. Which PPC?

Alex86

Thank you for such a fast reply, they are called London Parking Soloutions.

Coupon-mad

London Parking Solutions joined the IPC on 25/3/14 so you wouldn't have got a POPLA appeal even if you had appealed in time. You would have been offered an IAS appeal which are not as easy to win anyway, so no harm done. I would not write 'explaining the situation and mention that at xx.xx when the ticket was issued and the car park with empty spaces that landowner hasn't suffered any financial loss'.

Nonono. Far too much information from a registered keeper. A registered keeper who has only had that latest letter! So the keeper writes to both the debt collector and the PPC (both) and says something like:

'What is this about, you have my wrong address and in getting this letter (copy attached) so late, I have no idea of the circumstances or who was driving, what the allegation was, or whether a PCN was ever issued, or even whether there was any contravention at all. Send me a copy of what you say you issued and any Notice you say you sent out prior to this debt collector letter, so I can make an informed decision. Please note my current address as the keeper of the vehicle and the DVLA is aware of this address. You should treat this letter as a challenge to the alleged charge based on the fact that the debt collector letter is the first I have heard about the issue.' *

Then when you get a reply you should have more evidence. Ask at your old address whether there is any old post hanging about (you want to locate the Notice to Keeper which may well be non-compliant). Keep everything in case this PPC ever try a small claim - and go and get urgent photos of the car park now and store them in your file too. Don't delay getting the signage photos - you could even go there now or on Monday if it's local enough - you want to show any gaps like 'no signs at the entrance' and certainly the entire wording.

Finally, please EDIT YOUR FIRST POST to remove those details. Open forums should not show who was driving or details about the place/time/date.


*Firstly - before doing your reply to the PPC and debt collector - update the DVLA urgently as you can get a real fine for that!

Alex86

Many thanks for that, ill update the dvla asap. I have been and obtained pictures of the carpark entrance and one of the signs inside. i didnt bother with more than one as they all state the same. The entrance of the carpark has no signage displaying the terms. only one that briefly states it is a pay and display car park. not only that, but in the direction travelled down the road, you would never see it upon entering. At the end of a driveway once you have technically entered the carpark there is a sign stating the terms.

Coupon-mad

That's all useful to keep for a few years in case LPS ever tries to start a small claim (no big deal even though it sounds scary). Even if a PPC win in court against a registered keeper - which is a big leap for most to achieve, and most never bother to try - the maximum charge under POFA from a keeper, is the amount of the PCN (non discounted). So, even with a small claim fee added on if you did lose, it's no more than Roxburghe are demanding and with no effect on credit rating if a person did lose at a hearing then paid up. No CCJ or anything.

Keep all your evidence & all letters in a file for six years - same as any alleged debt, in UK law it becomes 'statute barred' only after six years. Unlikely to ever come to anything beyond letters though. If it does we can help with defence wording & info about the process; no-one here loses against smaller PPCs so I wouldn't worry.

If you get a LBC from Gladstones solicitors, or the PPC themselves, you should formally respond (as per the 'LBCCC Fightback' thread).

Just finally, what circumstances are stated on that sign which give rise to a PCN? In other words does it use words like 'failure to comply with the above' or 'contravening the terms' results in a PCN? Or does it say people are allowed to park any old how with/without a permit as long as they pay a contractual fee?

It's best to show us the sign but you can't post links yet - so change the 'http' in your URL of the pic, to hxxp.

Alex86

Ok ill keep hold of anything that i further get from them. Hope the pic is good enough. The first is a pic of the sign, the second shows where it is in relation to the entrance. You can just see it at the far end.

http:// i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab258/alekin86/Mobile%20Uploads/CB915C68-16B7-4652-B017-5287BFE039A3.jpg

http:// i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab258/alekin86/Mobile%20Uploads/5A8C2A7F-EBC7-40E6-BA26-D642352EB166.jpg

Umkomaas

Clicky links:

http://s869.photobucket.com/user/alekin86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CB915C68-16B7-4652-B017-5287BFE039A3.jpg.html

http://s869.photobucket.com/user/alekin86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/5A8C2A7F-EBC7-40E6-BA26-D642352EB166.jpg.html

Coupon-mad

OK so that's a fairly new IPC sign which the IPC like to think makes the charge a contractual fee (consideration) just because they use those words. We would disagree. If they wanted to have a sign that allowed cars to park for £100 tariff without a permit then the signs should include that group in those listed under 'parking is permitted for'.

As it stands, that sign disallows parking without a permit so if this ever went to a small claim, one of your arguments would be that even if the driver did see a sign (which is denied) the £100 is clearly for breach (unauthorised parking) so must represent a GPEOL. Another point would be 'no entrance signs whatsoever' so a car can park up without a driver ever knowing about any restrictions, particularly if that little old sign on a fence is obscured by a van or car, which is very likely due to its positioning.

It's a waiting game but don't bin anything for 6 years. Let us know if you get a Letter before Claim or court papers of course as we can help advise you about our opinions and experience of the best words to use in defence.

We aren't legally trained but we are 'forum guru's' (according to one miffed PPC who don't know where to put an apostrophe let alone a sign!). Many of us regulars have been here years and the newer ones are just as keen to stop this scam. We are all (I suspect) self-confessed pedants with very long memories, a lot of knowledge about parking matters and access to lots of info.