Do I have a fireplace under here?

gallygirl

That looks like a fireplace to me :T

rustyboy21

It looks like a chamber to have a fire, but not a fireplace.

As I have said earlier, get a registered sweep in, before you start doing any work on it and spending £1000's on buying things. It may end up with the flue being blocked off further up, when they renovated the house into flats.

Here is a true story for you. Cstomer came into my store over 10 years ago, in a similar position to you. They had a top floor 'Penthouse flat' in a large Victorian property. All the signs were great, they had a chimney breast, gas run to the site, stack and pots on the roof. Everything looked AOK. They placed an order with me for a £4000 fireplace.

The day of the fit arrived and I sent our fitters out. I got a call 2 hours later from a very distraught fitter, asking for help urgently. They had opened up the chamber for the fire, to find that the Irish ' Navvies' ( and they were, I am not stereotyping here) had knocked down the old chimney stack, filled it into the flue of the house and then built a new Chimney stack and pots on top of it. The fitter had started to remove some bricks, he got up to full body height in the chamber and couldn't go anymore without the risk of it collapsing on him and killing him.

The customer created a stink in my store demanding a refund on something bespoke and not sold usually by me, we ended up in small claims, which I won. They had NHBC warranty on the property, but they washed their hands of it. They had to pay £6k to rip the front of the chimney breast off, take out all the old bricks, redo the chimney breast again and then pay me £500 for a new fit.

They said they didn't think the flue needed sweeping, as it was covered under NHBC warranty and it would be ok, even though I told them to get it done.

I am not talking as a lay person here, I know my stuff. Don't do anymore until you get it checked out, it will only cost about £50-70 to get a sweep in and get him to do a load of checks.


You still haven't said how high the house is and what floor you are on.

SomeUser

Thanks rustyboy. Whatever happens, I'm going to uncover it all and put something in it, even if it's only a pretty bio-ethanol fire.

I'm on the ground floor, property is 2 storeys high with a roof. Given I have people living above me, it of course needs full testing - I don't want to CO poison the people living above me!!

I don't know the full terminology nor even how all the lining and flues work (it seems too small a space to be able to do anything to me!) and I'll probably need to have lots of chats with the buildings officer generally - I've got internal walls to to move, I want to hack off all the plaster and put on aerogel but nervous about meeting the current standards.... even just insulating my floorboards will require buildings approval and on an 1860s flat, I'm not sure how easy it'll be.

This is what it looks like now https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdp6jpzri8abt1f/IMG_20140824_162819.jpg?dl=0

Tomorrow I'll take the radiator of and finish uncovering it.

SomeUser

And as a layperson, I did a draw test. Clearly this isn't very scientific but I smoked a cigarette in front of the chamber (and holding it inside) and my house doesn't smell of smoke - I don't ever smoke inside usually.

Obviously that's not sufficient, but it seemed a good starting point to me.

And given the number of leaves in it, I think it's a fairly good indication that it's not completely blocked

If I can get a burner in there, and actually I need to go for a DEFRA approved log burner as I'm in a smoke control zone, then I want it lined whatever, because of tar and having people living above me.

I do want real fire though. It has to be real for me!

rustyboy21

It looks like it is a small fire chamber, which used to have something like this fitted in the past...

http://www.fires2u.com/product/435/gallery-celtic-fireplace-suite.html
Or maybe something like this...

http://www.fires2u.com/product/442/gallery-edwardian-fireplace-suite.html

These can take solid fuel , without much changing to the opening you have now, but if you are looking towards a stove, the opening will have to be widened to look similar to this...

http://www.fires2u.com/product/1600/cast-tec-norvik-5-multiflue-stove.html.


This will need to be lined with a really good solid fuel liner, don't be fobbed off by someone fitting a cheap nasty one which will melt and leak within a couple of years. Any flue height over approx. 12 meters will most likely need to be lined anyway. the sweeps who frequent here will be able to advise better.
Pellet stoves are hot, but they do look awful and cost a bomb. The other issue is loading up the hoppers you will end up with pellets rolling around your flat ! lol. Also look at where you will store your seasoned wood and its cost and the maintenance of the stove & flue.

Have you really looked at some of the gas stoves out there, some are stunning and when you add in the price of fitting a liner for solid fuel and ongoing maintenance will work out cheaper for you. The one I like the best is this....

http://www.faberfireplaces.co.uk/site/default.asp?land=uk&subject=product&keuze=Gashaarden&categorie=Freestanding&naam=Jelling

All remote control and looks like a camp fire when it is going and very hot too. It would be easy to fit too. just up 1m a bend then a wall terminal to outside, no fuss for neighbours and done in a day for you

OP , Here you go a little light reading for a bank holiday weekend !:rotfl:
http://www.hetas.co.uk/wp-content/mediauploads/BFCMA-General-Guidance-10-12-12.pdf
Tells you all you need to know on flues

SomeUser

Thanks rustyboy, that's really helpful!

The chamber narrows to the top where it's 10" but at the bottom it's much much wider. I've not yet uncovered the bottom but about halfway up it's 16". Would it definitely need widening for a stove?

SomeUser

My biggest thing about gas is that the services have to come a long way. All my gas is at the back and this is at the front..

rustyboy21

You will have to widen the opening if you are looking at a wood burning stove. You can get some which rear vent, but this will impact on the room, as you will have to have a hearth big enough for it to fit on, as well as having at least 12'' in front of the stove, to prevent ashes dropping onto the floor.


If you floor is wooden, then it is quite simple to run a gas pipe to the room. I have an old house like yours and I have a cellar, so all my pipework, including the radiator pipes run through that. If you have no cellar, then if the floor is wooden, you will have quite a large void underneath the boards which can easily accommodate the gas pipe.


It does sound like the chamber was made for a small combination cast insert, not a large fireplace. The slight arch at the top, has a small metal lintel going just below it. It looks original, so this does add to the proof of what would have been there originally.


You can, in effect do anything you want, price will always be the factor here. Solid fuel stove fitting, dependent on where you are would work out , say £1500-2500 including liner( stove price needs to be added on ). Gas run to room maybe £200, that stove I showed you would be around £2500, it is an expensive Dutch one, but looks fab.


You may as well just put an electric stove there instead of a Bio Ethanol fire, it would work out cheaper to run and buy. They are a rip off and IMO only nice when used on the patio ! lol How they say they give off 3.5kw, when they don't even have to go through the same testing as gas and solid fuel appliances is really wrong and worrying to me.