Hiding assets

Mojisola

shorty33 wrote: »

What I am not clear on is the position of the person hiding the money, would they be classed as complicit in the fraud and liable for prosecution?

dippy3103 wrote: »

Yes. It's an offence under the Social Security acts to knowingly allow, cause or permit a third party to fail to report a change in circumstances. If convicted on incitement it carries a maximum of 7 years.

And shorty could get caught up in that if he/she gave the beneficiary's money to a third party instead of directly to the beneficiary.

dippy3103

shorty33 wrote: »

Thanks dippy, I think armed with this I should be able to persuade both parties to think again.

Would a link to the relevant legislation help? Think carefully- you could be implied in this as you would be allowing & permitting

This is a solicitors website but it does set out the offences well


http://www.benefit-fraud.co.uk/offences.php

Johnnytwostep

you should give them the money as per the will and on the same day phone the benefits office and make them aware of this windfall. Why should we pay while they get to hide the money.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

shorty33 wrote: »

I have recently acted as the executor for a relative's estate. The sole beneficiary happens to be on benefits. They have asked someone to "hide" money for them in an account until they reach retirement and are no longer getting means tested benefits. I have explained their position to them, regarding fraud and deprivation of assets though it doesn't seem to be making an impact. What I am not clear on is the position of the person hiding the money, would they be classed as complicit in the fraud and liable for prosecution?

As Executor of the Estate you distribute to those named in the will - not to a third party not connected with the estate. What would happen if the beneficiary claims they never received the money and you turn round and say I sent it to Mr Joe Bloggs. As you are now aware the beneficiary wants to hide his assets to continue to claim benefits and if you send it to the their party then you become complicit in the fraud and would equally be prosecuted. Send the payment to the person names in the will only. What they then do with that money will be no concern of yours.

Mersey_2

As others have said, assets shouldn't be hidden by a person in receipt of means-tested benefits and yes it would constitute an offence on their part and possibly also individuals who assist them in so doing.

However, this amused me:

Mojisola wrote: »

The DWP will have a copy of the will and they will check the names against their database so there is no way the beneficiary can hide this money.

If the DWP were that sophisticated, I'd suggest that they wouldn't lose £Billions in error each year. Quite apart from the logistical nightmare and jurisdictional issues even between NI, Scotland & E&W - never mind eg ex-Pats abroad - and different IT systems, if the DWP had any staff this good, I suspect they'd leave to become Heir Hunters and earn far more!

It reminds me of a poster who claimed on here that the DWP check who goes abroad(!)

RuthnJasper

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

As Executor of the Estate you distribute to those named in the will - not to a third party not connected with the estate. What would happen if the beneficiary claims they never received the money and you turn round and say I sent it to Mr Joe Bloggs. As you are now aware the beneficiary wants to hide his assets to continue to claim benefits and if you send it to the their party then you become complicit in the fraud and would equally be prosecuted. Send the payment to the person names in the will only. What they then do with that money will be no concern of yours.

I would report them anyway. Quite apart from it being illegal, it is absolutely disgusting behaviour. Benefits should be for those in genuine need, not cash-cushions for deceitful gits.

Mojisola

Mersey wrote: »

However, this amused me:

It reminds me of a poster who claimed on here that the DWP check who goes abroad(!)

Happy to have given you a laugh.

So all the people who work in the Estate Recovery department of the DWP are imaginary and all the letters that get sent out to the executors of claimants' estates don't exist?

Mersey_2

I had heard of them, I'm just surprised any person still works for them. They were mentioned on the BBC's Working Lunch programme around a decade ago and it revealed that over 80% of letters are not even responded to. Hardly surprising given many involve telling loved ones that their recently departed owes the Govt £50 in the state pension.

I'm therefore surprised that they've survived the cuts in the civil service - although, due to the PCS, it seems to mean that the senior experienced staff are allowed to retire, with recruits, if any, being in their 20s, to save £. Surely, most of these letters must be computer generated?

But I suppose they might get lucky once a year and discover a millionaire ex-Pat in Spain who leaves his entire estate to the residents of Benefits Street.

But, seriously, I repeat: if the DWP really were that sophisticated, relatives of the deceased in receipt of means-tested benefits would not even have to apply for assistance with funeral costs, they'd simply receive a cheque in the post off IDS!

If the UK Border Agency and Home Office aren't aware when individuals leave the UK, I very much doubt the DWP could even attempt to do so.

missapril75

Mersey wrote: »

....if the DWP really were that sophisticated.....

Nothing sophisticated about it. When the DWP is notified of the death of someone on means tested benefits they send off a notice saying how much that person declared in assets (not including their home) and if the estate is a higher figure (most likely explanation being home sale which doesn't matter but it might be because they had more than declared) they get notified back and the enquiry letter follows.


That's a very simple process.

Cyberman60

missapril75 wrote: »

Nothing sophisticated about it. When the DWP is notified of the death of someone on means tested benefits they send off a notice saying how much that person declared in assets (not including their home) and if the estate is a higher figure (most likely explanation being home sale which doesn't matter but it might be because they had more than declared) they get notified back and the enquiry letter follows.


That's a very simple process.

.... and they deduct all benefits that the claimant should not have claimed from the estate ? I'm hoping !!! ,,,, and surely there is an argument here for all benefits to be claimed back on death ... legit or not, from house sale etc !!