7 year old doesn't want to do R.E.

margaretclare

I don't know. I know very little about NI. But Christianity formed the background of our culture in these islands for many, many centuries. Words and phrases have entered our literature and are still used today. Mostly, people have forgotten where they came from.

I went to a small village school in Yorkshire and we learned the Old Testament as part of normal school. Even today I can still recite chunks of it. Ruth's speech to her mother-in-law, for instance.

In that village, there were no Catholics. People were either church or chapel. I didn't meet a Catholic until I went to grammar school, I was 14 before I met a Jew, and I didn't meet a Muslim until many years later.

A popular musical for children is 'Joseph and his amazing technicolour dreamcoat'. Where does that story originally come from? It wasn't invented by Andrew Lloyd Webber!

It was an Irish bishop, Bishop Ussher, who propounded the 6000 years age of the earth idea. However, it's not necessary to believe this as fact. Ancient peoples struggled to make sense of the world they lived in. The story of a major flood is in many ancient civilisations. It's now known that rising sea levels drowned a lot of land - Doggerland in the North Sea has only recently been discovered from when England was joined on to the European mainland.

If I still had children at school I'd like them to be exposed to the culture they live in and to gain some understanding of what their ancestors believed, and the literature and ideas of the times.

ALIBOBSY

gayleygoo wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies, they have helped to reassure me. I realise that any child can find any subject boring, so I agree for that reason that I just don't want to take her out of it. OH and I are atheists and for lots of the reasons given by others here we wanted her to "learn everything" as such. We knew it religion was going to be taught in school anyway and have been fine with it for the past two years.

I feel it is excessive though. At least one or two homeworks a week are about the bible, they watch bible videos everyday during video time, and she has been told the earth is 6000 years old and made by God in 7 days. Many religious people no longer believe that, and they are teaching it as fact when they haven't even introduced science in school, never mind other religions - I wouldn't mind if they covered others as well! We have taught her about different religions at home, we have lots of books about different beliefs to try to put it into perspective. But the school (and I think the headmistress in particular) seems to have an agenda. Even fundraising events were faith-orientated last year. They have "religious inspections" and have had to learn by rote lots of hymns and bible phrases for the visiting ministers. I don't remember hearing about an English or Maths inspection!

In N.I. the religious situation is a bit weird. There is one integrated school locally which teaches about different religions (which we couldn't get her into) but other than that it is either quite strictly "catholic" or "protestant". Obviously we consider ourselves to be neither, but there are lots of children of other nationalities and potential religions, so I might ask the teacher if it is possible to talk about the variations.

I tend to disagree with the view that religion needs to be taught so that she can make up her own mind in the future. A primary school child does not need to learn about religion, it is an adult concept that can only really be thought about when a person has a better understanding of time and morality. I'm all for it in secondary school, since that's when teens begin to question such things and figure them out for themselves. I feel that there is a christan ethos to "get in there first and indoctrinate" rather than discuss ideas.

I will give it a bit more thought anyway!

Hmm sounds like a specifically NI thing I think. My children attend c of e schools attached to our local church. Obviously this means there is more of a christian emphasis, but they try hard to make it as much about morality (which anyone can have atheist or believer).
They have never been asked to memorise passages from the bible and in fact as a christian who attended church schools and sunday schools I can't recall being asked to memorise much apart from the lord's prayer and certain things for my confirmation.

There is also a good all around education and definately they talk about other religions/festivals and even atheism.

Although I have a belief myself my eldest son came through the schools and church with a strong feeling that there is nothing else just this life and declared himself an athiest.

I never force the children to go to church and their future beliefs are their own choices to make down the line, but I do value the strong moral base the school is giving them.

I suppose for OP the question is, is this just in that school your child attends or is it in all schools in the area because of a strong religeous sentiment in the country/area.

Ali x

NB we were always taught the science alongside the religion and never any creationist nonsense.

TBagpuss

margaretclare wrote: »

I don't know. I know very little about NI. But Christianity formed the background of our culture in these islands for many, many centuries. Words and phrases have entered our literature and are still used today. Mostly, people have forgotten where they came from.

I went to a small village school in Yorkshire and we learned the Old Testament as part of normal school. Even today I can still recite chunks of it. Ruth's speech to her mother-in-law, for instance.

In that village, there were no Catholics. People were either church or chapel. I didn't meet a Catholic until I went to grammar school, I was 14 before I met a Jew, and I didn't meet a Muslim until many years later.

A popular musical for children is 'Joseph and his amazing technicolour dreamcoat'. Where does that story originally come from? It wasn't invented by Andrew Lloyd Webber!

It was an Irish bishop, Bishop Ussher, who propounded the 6000 years age of the earth idea. However, it's not necessary to believe this as fact. Ancient peoples struggled to make sense of the world they lived in. The story of a major flood is in many ancient civilisations. It's now known that rising sea levels drowned a lot of land - Doggerland in the North Sea has only recently been discovered from when England was joined on to the European mainland.

If I still had children at school I'd like them to be exposed to the culture they live in and to gain some understanding of what their ancestors believed, and the literature and ideas of the times.

I think that comes back to the distinction of being taught *about* religion and religious beliefs, as opposed to being taught *a religion*
I don't think anyone is arguing that children should not learn about religions, and the ways in which they influence our history and language, but that is very different to being taught a religion and in particular, being taught it as if it were fact, which appears to be what is happening to OPs daughter, if her reports are correct.

OP - you might find your daughter enjoys Richard Dawkins' book "The Magic of Reality" (Get the hard cover - the illustrations are half the joy) it sets out various myths and religious stories, from different cultures, and then gives he scientific explanations, so it gives a lovely range of stories from different cultures and religions, and gives a scientific answer to the questions they raise, so it can be a really good starting point for discussion.

I would very definitely, in your position, be speaking to the school and raising concerns if the children are in fact being taught young-earth creationism (or any other kind!)

gayleygoo

I think it could be an influence from her particular teacher last year, perhaps it is not the school's policy to teach it that way, I guess I'll have to discuss it with next year's teacher.

There is a difference between religion and culture (although they are often linked). Learning about different cultures is obviously very important, but this isn't what is happening here. Of course I know I'm just going on what DD has said, her homeworks, the activities in her workbooks she brought home at the end of the year, and the plays and fundraising events... but still, it seems too much like "Sunday school" to me.

I know that some schools are different because a few friends send their children to other schools. Religion is more of a general subject and they have covered different ones, celebrated different festivals, and had non-religious plays. Would love her to get into that school, but it's very small and we're outside its catchment area.

Religion might no "do any harm" to most children, but it can. As a method of teaching morality, it's very backward. Most parents realise that bribery and threats are not long-term solutions to raising children, yet that is basically what (much of) religion is to adults (in my opinion). We teach morality better than her teacher last year did. My daughter came home from school in tears one day because her teacher had stamped on a spider - we had taught her that all life has value, even the little things. Her Christian friends have teased her that she is going to hell because she doesn't believe in God and told her she couldn't be part of their "club" one day unless she believed.

I got an A in my R.E. too, despite believing it was nonsense at the time. I see the benefit now, it was an "extra" GCSE that we had to do anyway. However I still shudder to this day when I think of our teacher at the time and how he taught it, and the way his faith clearly affected his view of women.

As atheiests we have taught DD a lot about other religions - from Greek mythology, Irish mythology, various tribal beliefs from around the world, and talked about why people wear turbans and headscarves. We often talk about "what people thought a long long time ago". We answer those questions when they come up and take advantage of opportunities to discuss new (or old!) ideas.

I think the main problem I have is the way it is taught. It would be great if it were more diverse but I am worried about resistance from other parents if I were to suggest such a thing, and not sure how to go about it. Thank you all for taking the time to reply

shop-to-drop

She has probably picked up how you feel about religion in school and has given that as her reasoning to get your attention and support.

maman

tbourner wrote: »

To be honest the best anti-theists (is 'best' the right word?) are those who know most about the subject. Matt Dillahunty is the first that comes to mind. So if the OP is secretly trying to prevent some indoctrination by this argument/question then maybe the answer is in fact to put MORE learning of RE subjects onto DD.

I had a great uncle who was an atheist and he'd read the bible 7 times from cover to cover just to argue with my grandfather (his brother in law and a committed Christian).:rotfl:

PasturesNew

I think there's an element in here of learning about life - and that you can't always have it your own way. In life you have to do many things you don't want to do .... and it's a parent's job to explain this and make them do it as a life lesson in not always getting your own way and having to play by the rules.

Acc72

PasturesNew wrote: »

I think there's an element in here of learning about life - and that you can't always have it your own way. In life you have to do many things you don't want to do .... and it's a parent's job to explain this and make them do it as a life lesson in not always getting your own way and having to play by the rules.

That is one way of looking at it.


However, wot about Dimonique's hooman rites innit ?


Surely there must be a law / opportunity for compo. for this sort of thing ?

Mojisola

PasturesNew wrote: »

I think there's an element in here of learning about life - and that you can't always have it your own way.

In life you have to do many things you don't want to do .... and it's a parent's job to explain this and make them do it as a life lesson in not always getting your own way and having to play by the rules.

But this has to be balanced against the life lesson that if something is going on that's not right, you should do your best to change it.

While I wouldn't withdraw a child from religious instruction classes "because she's bored", I would make efforts to stop religious instruction in one faith being part of the school day and would seriously object to creationism being taught as fact.

WillowFae

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Worked with my youngest. She's predicted A* for RE, because she learned about it, not how to do it. Useful reasoning and communication skills, musical, historical, psychological and political understanding will all come from sitting tight and doing the boring God stuff. Plus learning when it's a good idea to keep your mouth shut and not upset or alienate people.

And as an RE teacher I can say that the reason she is predicted so high is because those are EXACTLY the skills we teach in RE. It is often the case that my most religious students are the ones that do poorly in the subject as they are unable to objectively evaluate, compare, and contrast. They may be great when it comes to their understanding of their own views on philosophical and ethical issues, but they just cannot evaluate those and look at them in a mature manner.