Faulty diesel injector?

Richard53

My messing with engines has been always with the petrol variety. I've owned a few diesels, but have done nothing more than routine maintenance with them. Hence I feel a bit ignorant about when they go wrong, and I am hoping someone here will know better than I do.


Ford Mondeo, 56 plate, 2 litre Tdci, 130 PS version, 60k miles, major services by dealer then independent, interim oil and filter changes by me, more or less to schedule.


Last winter, the car was getting a little slow to fire up in the cold weather, and ran rough and rattly for the first 10-20 seconds until it settled down. Also a cloud of grey smoke as it kicked into life. I assumed that this was probably a duff glowplug or two, as I had had the same symptoms on a Discovery and new glowplugs cured it. As the car ran fine otherwise (smoothness, power and economy not affected) I have ignored it until it became a problem.


In the last couple of months it has got worse. At idle (even warm) it rattles like an old London taxi and occasionally there is a sound like someone rapidly hitting the cylinder head with a small hammer. It has got really noticeable and now I want it fixed. (I have just done West Wales to Switzerland and back at 70-80 mph and 50 mpg, so I am assuming the engine is fundamentally sound.)


My local garage guy has had a listen and said it sounded like a worn or faulty injector rather than a glow plug (and I am moving away from my glowplug theory). I have booked it in for him to run the diagnostics (£15-20) and will see how it goes. Just for me to be better prepared when I speak to him next, a) does this sound like a likely explanation for the symptoms, and b) what overall costs are we looking at if one or more injectors need replacing? He's not willing to commit to a figure, understandably, but a ballpark estimate would be a big help to me.


I like the car and plan to keep it until it dies, but it is worth less than £2500 and if repair costs are going to be a big proportion of that, it might be time to move on.


Thank you.

motorguy

Common fault on the 2.0TDCI and i think from memory, expensive to resolve.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Richard53 wrote: »

My messing with engines has been always with the petrol variety. I've owned a few diesels, but have done nothing more than routine maintenance with them. Hence I feel a bit ignorant about when they go wrong, and I am hoping someone here will know better than I do.


Ford Mondeo, 56 plate, 2 litre Tdci, 130 PS version, 60k miles, major services by dealer then independent, interim oil and filter changes by me, more or less to schedule.


Last winter, the car was getting a little slow to fire up in the cold weather, and ran rough and rattly for the first 10-20 seconds until it settled down. Also a cloud of grey smoke as it kicked into life. I assumed that this was probably a duff glowplug or two, as I had had the same symptoms on a Discovery and new glowplugs cured it. As the car ran fine otherwise (smoothness, power and economy not affected) I have ignored it until it became a problem.


In the last couple of months it has got worse. At idle (even warm) it rattles like an old London taxi and occasionally there is a sound like someone rapidly hitting the cylinder head with a small hammer. It has got really noticeable and now I want it fixed. (I have just done West Wales to Switzerland and back at 70-80 mph and 50 mpg, so I am assuming the engine is fundamentally sound.)


My local garage guy has had a listen and said it sounded like a worn or faulty injector rather than a glow plug (and I am moving away from my glowplug theory). I have booked it in for him to run the diagnostics (£15-20) and will see how it goes. Just for me to be better prepared when I speak to him next, a) does this sound like a likely explanation for the symptoms, and b) what overall costs are we looking at if one or more injectors need replacing? He's not willing to commit to a figure, understandably, but a ballpark estimate would be a big help to me.


I like the car and plan to keep it until it dies, but it is worth less than £2500 and if repair costs are going to be a big proportion of that, it might be time to move on.


Thank you.

depends on what type of injectors fitted usually identified by part/serial number, there could be a choice of 2 IIRC on the ford 2ltr models im pretty sure they need setting up with the ECU aswell so factor that into costs.


sometimes it can be a simple injector seal and costs very little most is built up of labor cost.


but IF it need replacing your looking:
injector
ECU reading and diagnosis
ECU injector coding
labor
vat

forgotmyname

A leakoff test can be done without removing the injectors. You remove the small leak off pipes going to each injector and replace with tubing and bottles to measure the amount of fuel leaking off.

25ml or after a 2 or 3 minute test cycle is OK. Anything over is bad.

Or you can get the injectors removed and bench tested.

Decent reconditioned injectors are about £125 + vat and come with new calibration codes. Lots of them wont come with new codes though.

Have you had the glowplugs tested though?

welfayre

forgotmyname wrote: »

Have you had the glowplugs tested though?

Glow plugs only come on for around 30 secs when you turn on the ignition. They're only used to get the air temperature high enough for combustion to occur and in many modern cars won't even activate unless it's below a predetermined temperature. Once the car is running the glow plugs aren't required so if the fault is happening while the car is driving and not just at start up you can pretty much rule out glow plugs.

forgotmyname

Yeah but the problem started last winter and starting with no glowplugs during freezing conditions could have caused other issues.

Richard53

Yes, the problem started in cold weather (smoke on starting, rough running for 10 sec or so) which seemed like classic glowplug symptoms. But now it sometime rattles like a bag of spanners at idle, although today funnily enough it was nice and quiet.


Thanks for the advice. I'll be better prepared to talk with the garage now. I hadn't thought of the need to recode the new injector(s), for example. I'll get him to check the glowplugs as well (I could have done this for myself, but had a bad case of CBA). I hope it's not going to get too expensive. I might just decide to live with it, as the car is running well apart from this.


Cheers.

Slowly_does_it..

I don't have a diesel, but have heard some good reports of injector cleaner stuff you pour into the tank.

For 5.99 given to halfrauds, it might be worth a shot. Cheaper options might be available.

Richard53

Thanks, I will try that. I have bought and used injector cleaner before (just to see if it did any good) and never noticed any difference. But if there is a problem with the injectors, it may be worth a shot.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Richard53 wrote: »

Thanks, I will try that. I have bought and used injector cleaner before (just to see if it did any good) and never noticed any difference. But if there is a problem with the injectors, it may be worth a shot.

injectors usually get gummed up with carbon, fuel tank chards (when running on low tank often), bits of degraded fuel filter (paper element type) and even metal chards from when a fuel pumps disintegrates.


To just being worn out injector tips where the spray holes (5 spray holes on each tip of these IIRC) enlarge by a few thou' of a MM due to pressure and alter the spray pattern.


I don't think a injector cleaner will help which may just cause bits in the injector to loosen but are too big to be pushed through block the nozzle completely.

mattyprice4004

forgotmyname wrote: »

Yeah but the problem started last winter and starting with no glowplugs during freezing conditions could have caused other issues.

Starting with poor plugs won't cause injector problems, just poor ignition due to low cylinder temperature.