Dismissed (What am I entitled to)

Northern_Jon

Not sure if this the correct place to put this as it's not redundancy, more dismissal. I'm trying to get a handle on what I'm entitled to if I get dismissed from my current job..

Basically my company is changing our terms and conditions to an extent that it would have quite an impact on my family life, mainly due to different hours / shift patterns. This is probably not relevant so wont go into more detail.

We're told if we don't sign the new contract will will be dismissed and offered re-employment under the new T&C's. We are going through consultation meetings at the moment. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sign and expect to be dismissed sometime in September (not been happy for a while, so using it as a kick up the bum to find something new). After meeting with Manager (1st consultation) last week he was adamant I'd only be entitled to 4 weeks notice, although I've been there for 11 years (from what I've read I should get 11 weeks). Also:

Holiday pay 20 + 8 Bank Holiday's - booked and used 16 days (worked 5 BH days).

Long service - 5 days, that if we don't use them they pay us the extra week in Feb. I'm presuming that I don't have to accrue these so should get the full 5 days regardless of not completing the years as I can take them at any time.

I currently use a van that they supply as I'm a mobile worker. I'm allowed to use this for private use also (you can opt out) and pay car and fuel tax (649T) works out about £65 / month. Question is that as I pay for private use do I keep the van privilege whilst on my notice period? Pretty sure that when some guys got made redundant a few years ago they did, but of course this is dismissal so may be different.

Any help on the above would be appreciated, don't want to have my shirt lifted and just want to get what I'm entitled to.

Cheers

Jon

getmore4less

11weeks notice + holidays.

the changes may be significant enough to be redundancy.

check your house insurance for legal cover of employment issues.

what are they going to do if every refuses and waits for them to force the change and put people on notice can they take the risk.

Northern_Jon

We've been told that they expect to loose 30% of staff due to this change. I think this is more of a scare tactic myself, pretty sure the business couldn't sustain that loss. I'm sure its to make us think that if I leave it wont make a difference, so people wont do it. Saying that, most people are not in the position to be able to loose their job so cannot take the risk.

How would I go about finding out whether the changes are significant enough to be redundancy's? ACAS? What are big changes to someone, might not be to another. Our role is not being changed, just the times and a different pay structure.

Thanks for the input.

Jon

Southend1

If you are a member of a trade union you will be able to access legal advice via your shop steward or the national member helpline.

zaax

If you don't agree / sign the new agreement your entitled to redundancy - contact union etc.

83CJB

From the information above, I do not consider this to be a redundancy situation, more of a dismissal and re-engagement.

there may potentially be additional claims to those refereed to above such as unfair dismissal (more complicated than in a typical case). You may wish to consider making an application for flexible working if you wanted to continue working there for a bit longer whilst you find alternative employment.

don't forget that claims have very strict time limits and if a claim is pursued in an employment tribunal you need to contact acas for early conciliation first.

Northern_Jon

Thanks for the info guys, have spoken to ACAS regarding notice period and pay, but need to follow this up with them in more detail to see if there would be a claim for unfair dismissal.

Jon

Northern_Jon

After having a final consultation meeting it looks like I'm being given written notice on the 22nd, which becomes effective on the 29th Sept. Does that mean my notice starts on the 22nd or the 29th? I will still be working until the 29th. My manager seems quite clueless and more of a bearer of news so no real point in asking him any questions....

Regarding notice, my current contract makes no mention of PILON, just states:

"1 months notice up to 4 years continuous service with the company and thereafter 1 weeks additional notice for each completed years service up to a maximum of 12 weeks"

From what I have read (done a fair bit of that) it seems that this could be Tax free but will depend on whether I'll be on garden leave (cant see this as it's dismissal not redundancy) As if my contract finishes / terminated on the 29th this could be "Breach of Contract" as I've not been given the correct notice period. Can someone clarify this please.. As I have use of a company van (also pay for private use) if termination is immediate I'd have to give the van back therefore should be entitled to compensation for this period. Also I believe that if I were given the proper notice I'd still be accruing holiday pay which I'd then be entitled to. Is this something I should be discussing with my employer now or once I'm dismissed??

Find below a list of the main current changes to my Terms and Conditions. Thought I'd post this to try to get some feedback to whether the changes were more akin to redundancy rather than dismissal. I have spoken to ACAS but the only advice on this is that I would need to take legal advice. So just thought I'd get an opinion form you guys...

Changing from 44 hours (same every week) a week to Annualized hours (2087 a year so about 200 less)

9 hours a day to between 5 to 10 hours a day.

5 days a week, up to 7 days without rest day to 4 - 6 days a week, up to 8 days without a rest day.

52 week rota to 3 week rota (this is the one that gives me most problems, mainly due to arranging child care)

8:00am to 8pm (at the moment we work 1 week of lates every 5 weeks) to work between 7am to 10:00pm (wont be any late shifts / weeks but we will / could work up to 10:00pm on 2 days during that week, every week)

Job and finish (paid until shift ends) to If we finish early and the company cant give you work you only get paid until the time you finish (i.e if I finish at 4:30 on a 6 finish I'd loose 90 minutes even though I have no control of my jobs)

I appreciate that the changes my be very small for some and more of a problem for others, so just after an opinion as to weather this would be worth pursuing.

Thanks for any help / input.

Jon

getmore4less

Holiday pay is not needed to be paid for holidays that could have accrued as you could have been made to take them therefore no loss.

getmore4less

If they are only paying shifts actual working time then they have probably calculated that will take up some of the 200hr less contracted hours, also saves them a bit of holiday pay.

if they mess up they could end up getting to the end of the year with a load of people under there annual hours.

lemontart

when leaving any job any unused accrued holidays for period up to end of that employment should be paid. That may well vary if redundancy.

Had similar few years back told if did not sign new t&c no job - sort and curlies