CM Service soft appeal rejected...

Dee140157

Oh dear your 21 days are up tomorrow and you have to put an IPC appeal together. That will be a toug one in the short time frame as we are all struggling a bit with this one.

I would advise going to parkingticketappeals, to see of they can help at such short notice and pay them the £16. But it may be too short a time frame even for them.

To be honest at this stage it is tempting to say just put in a one point appeal on registered keeper liability.
This is all provided you did truly stick to the template on the newbie thread and referred to the driver throughout. Did you at any point say when sending receipt that "I was a customer" not the driver was a customer.
So words to the effect(but maybe padded out more)

As registered keeper I wish to appeal the PCN dated xx/xx/xx
The NTK was not compliant with POFA 12 as it arrived 92 days after the parking event. Therefore the keeper cannot be held liable for the PCN, only the driver.

As we can't see what the signs say we cannot tell you how else to appeal. It is complicated without these, perhaps the only thing you could do is upload a picture of the windscreen ticket and the PCN with the information rejected.

If you did out yourself as the driver in the first appeal, then POFA 12 will not apply.

Dee140157

The part to look on signage for the ppc in the code of practice is section 5 right near the end. This gives the ways in which the contractual terms are set out. If the signage does not comply then you can beat them. But it is a lot of work to do before the end of close of play tomorrow.

Margethechicken

Shot myself in the foot. Have just found my copy of the soft appeal (sent before reading here...) I have used "I was a customer", "I received your parking notice". Is that game over?

Dee140157

Sadly in terms of POFA 12 possibly as you say I received the ticket, so you did get the NTD. So on balance of probability you were probably the driver, which is what they will argue.

I am struggling to give you the right advice in terms of the appeal.

As to the other points we can help without seeing all the evidence as we could send you in the wrong direction.


To be honest your best bet is to get yourself over to Boots quick smart show the manager your receipt and request/demand they arrange for cancellation of PCN. Fire email off to head office too etc. This may ultimately be more successful.

And maybe email parkingticketappeals urgently too. But as I say it may be too late even for them. But worth the £16 if not.

Margethechicken

Thanks all for your invaluable help. Just wish I'd found you all earlier.

Dee140157

On a positive note, whatever happens to the appeal, CMServies haven't to date done court that I am aware. This doesn't mean that they won't, so if you have no luck with appeal you still dont have to pay them. You will get a load of debt collectors letters to ignore and only if you get an LBCC or an MCOL would you need to start the fight again. However this time perhaps with a but more notice and a bit more research we might be able to help you win.

Just because we haven't been a lot of help tonight, doesn't mean you have to pay. And another forum member may be able to help tomorrow. I am just sorry I haven't been of much use tonight.

And Boots can still get the PCN cancelled even if you so lose the next appeal.

Margethechicken

Dee140157 wrote: »

Just because we haven't been a lot of help tonight, doesn't mean you have to pay. And another forum member may be able to help tomorrow. I am just sorry I haven't been of much use tonight.

You have no idea how much better I feel having spent an evening on here. So much goodwill and excellent advice.

Dee140157 wrote: »

And Boots can still get the PCN cancelled even if you so lose the next appeal.

Have emailed Boots already and will call into their store tomorrow.


Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

Margethechicken wrote: »

Shot myself in the foot. Have just found my copy of the soft appeal (sent before reading here...) I have used "I was a customer", "I received your parking notice". Is that game over?

You will probably lose the IAS appeal but bung one in anyway. Haven't heard of CMS suing anyone but it's defendable. And your best bet is a strong complaint as Dee said. A very, very strong complaint (unlikely to be Boots who contracted this bunch though, more likely to be the landowner or their managing agents). Complain to Boots and try to find out who owns the place by Googling the name of the retail park. Pretty sure other Robin Park threads have already complained to the owners before so search this forum for 'Robin' and read other Robin Park threads to see who to complain to (you will have to ignore the Robin Hood Airport results of course!).

If you lose at IAS do NOT believe the outcome letter which suggests you 'should' pay. DO NOT PAY. Do appeal anyway, try it, talk about the signs and say the charge isn't a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the signs suggest breach of contract* which in law can only return a party to the position they were in, not penalise.

Finally here's a poster who says they took pics of the signs and has just written an IAS appeal for this place:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5022430

Shows you why searching a forum is always recommended - you could have found that one days ago and could have pm'd that poster for tips in time. That would have been better than starting a thread TBH, you'd have got more info quicker by reading such threads which are only ever a search & a click away, only a few pages back on the forum.

Tell us how you get on with the complaint to the landowner anyway. Like I say, a search of this parking forum will find threads about who that is, just use the keyword 'Robin'.

Guys_Dad

Your appeal on late NTK should contain the sentence that although you were the customer that day and the RK, you deny being the Driver who parked the vehicle, therefore keeper liability does not apply and ticket MUST be dismissed.

Margethechicken

Complaint to the manager at Boots this morning got nowhere. She pretty much said what you've told me - the building is leased by them, not the car park. CMS have even been in store to say "We don't tell you how to manage your store, so don't tell us how to manage our business". Email is waiting for reply but not holding my breath on that one either.


Have read and re-read so many posts on here about Robin Park/CMS that I feel dizzy with it all! Thanks for all advice given. MTC




Looked at signage too, to see what info I could get. The signs look very new and I'm not certain that they would have been there in March, but obviously can't say for certain. There's another lesson in taking photos of what you can when you first get the ticket!