Landord seems not to understand LHA payments

BigAunty

I appreciate that it is frustrating trying to manage rental payments when the rental period and receipt of LHA are out of synch, plus have to pay a top-up from your other income or benefits to make up the difference between the rent and LHA.

What is your monthly rent and what is your 28 day LHA? What is the sum of the deposit? If in England/Wales, did your landlord place your deposit in a recognised scheme? Or did your landlord claim not to have taken a deposit but demanded 2 month's rent in advance which sum do to try and sidestep the formal deposit schemes?

It is the most common and typical of requirements for the new tenant to pay a deposit (usually equivalent to a month's rent) and a month's rent in advance of receiving the keys. As rent is due in advance, within a month of moving in, the tenant then has to pay another sent of rent for the forthcoming month so has generally handed over 3 months worth of rent in a period not much more than a month in duration (the deposit & the first month's rent in advance before the tenancy starts and the second month's rent in advance just as the first month in occupation has expired).

So was this the case and did you do this?

It isn't clear to me from your post if your landlord is demanding that you have 2 month's rent in credit or whether you haven't got your head around the difference between the initial deposit and rent and are confused about the process for rent in advance (namely that you are always paying for the month ahead).

I don't really understand what you mean by being £142 'in credit' so can you perhaps explain again what you mean by this? For example, if I were a tenant with a contract that stipulated I paid £400 per month on the 1st day of the month and I paid this sum in January, I wouldn't call it 'credit' as its confusing. I would have just said I paid the rent I owed. Do you mean that you have overpaid your rent by x sum?

What stands out for me most in your post (which I don't fully understand) is the subject 'Landlord seems not to understand LHA payments' and phrases like 'it will catch up with day its due' and 'the only arrears with LL will be for about 12 days this month 9/10 days next month and eventually be paid.'.

The obligations of the tenant according to the tenancy agreement are that they ensure full rent is paid when it is due regardless of their HB cycle. It causes endless misery to HB claimants on low incomes to meet their contractual obligations regardless of when they get their HB.

The primary deadline is the rental due dates - it is unfortunately irrelevant how much and when you are paid your LHA from a landlord's perspective. Telling the landlord to understand your LHA 4 weekly payments and be patient is not a good strategy.

Can I ask why your landlord receives the HB directly? Are you classed as vulnerable as this is the usual reason for a tenant not receiving HB directly.

Viberduo

tomtontom wrote: »

LHA is paid in arrears. You seem to be getting confused because of the two month advance payment, ignore that as it is only relevant at the end of the term.

If you moved in on June 2nd, and LHA was paid six weeks later, then you owe the £20 excess for the first month immediately. Then a further payment will be due just over two weeks later, which will put you in arrears until your next LHA payment.

Is the landlord happy to be paid monthly in arrears? If not, then you owe a full month plus the above.

You have misunderstood what I meant, I paid 2 months FULL money when I moved in so thats £550, I did originally assume that covered me till 2nd August, on the 18th July landlord was given £417 by council meaning rent was not due again to 2nd August, on the 2nd August £275 was due and £142 was extra in my account so £133 was still owed, if I do not pay £20 now then when council pay on the 18th I will be back to having 2 months rent paid plus leftoevr £142.

Viberduo

BigAunty wrote: »

Or did your landlord claim not to have taken a deposit but demanded 2 month's rent in advance which sum do to try and sidestep the formal deposit schemes?

It isn't clear to me from your post if your landlord is demanding that you have 2 month's rent in credit or whether you haven't got your head around the difference between the initial deposit and rent and are confused about the process for rent in advance (namely that you are always paying for the month ahead).

I don't really understand what you mean by being £142 'in credit' so can you perhaps explain again what you mean by this? For example, if I were a tenant with a contract that stipulated I paid £400 per month on the 1st day of the month and I paid this sum in January, I wouldn't call it 'credit' as its confusing. I would have just said I paid the rent I owed. Do you mean that you have overpaid your rent by x sum?

Can I ask why your landlord receives the HB directly? Are you classed as vulnerable as this is the usual reason for a tenant not receiving HB directly.

Cut that down a little to the main points, rent is £275 PCM, I paid £550 when I moved in but since I moved in LL has been wording everything they say to me in a way that does not answer the question, i.e I asked if there was a deposit, one member of staff told me it was 1 months rent in advance plus 1 month for deposit, other said as I am on benefits its just 2 months in advance(but did not tell me that meant rent was always 2 months in credit despite me saying to them that was good news as it took about 6 weeks for LHA to be assessed so by time next payment due I will have it sorted)

I only knew that it was always 2 months in credit about the 9th of July when I got phone calls from landlord/agency(same thing) saying rent was late and I found out from council rent was assessed but not due to be paid to the 18th(and takes 3 days to clear) and LL said they were fine with this, but a few days later mentioned the top up.

The council paid £417 into the LL's account when the rent for the month was £275 so by paying £417 it covered Julys rent of £275 and left a overpayment of £142, so yes 2 months rent was paid to LL plus a overpayment of £142(not overpayment in the sense I wasnt entitled to benefits but landlord was paid extra)

Had the £142 came direct to me from council I would of had the £20 top up set up for the 2nd same day as rent is due which I have no problem with but landlord STILL wants £20 top up despite having £142 extra paid last month but the issue then is that right now there is arrears.

I have no issue with paying the £133 due but my problem is that if I pay the late rent, then when the council pays LL on the 18th it would mean I have paid LL 2 months that is agreed but he will have almost a 3rd month paid for.

I do not want to be in arrears, I can afford to not be in arrears however I want the easiest situation, I asked for the money to be paid to LL because I have had LL's in the past claim I did not pay them rent when I have(Even had one who was paid direct claim council didnt pay him for 2 months until I got them to confirm they did) so if ever theres a dispute over money owed they cant turn round and say they havent been paid by council.

So yes its a confusing situation, I do not want it to seem like I am trying to wriggle out of money due to LL just I wanted what was best for both LL and me, it looks like I will have to ask for money to be paid to me then be out of pocket for about 2 weeks and when the council pay dates catch up to the 2nd I will get it changed back to LL and get a £20 top up put on.

However the most confusing part for everyone is the top up due/not due since currently I am 1 month paid and £133 due to make it 2 months paid in advance so if council pays them around £250 next week as of next week I will be about £117 overpaid with them so why would I owe a top up. since I paid from 2nd June to 2nd August out of my own pocket and council paid from 2nd June to middle of July that means by their reckoning they have been paid twice for the same period.

Viberduo

Nada666 wrote: »

OP, I think you need to sort yourself out and stop being stupid. Is the place decent? A reasonable price (or, at least, not any worse than alternatives?)

If so shut up and pay up. Or keep messing around and be given notice to quit. Then see how easy it is to find somewhere else - a landlord that will accept benefits, and you will have to find another two months advance (plus a month or two for a new claim to be processed.)

Guess what? Rent is paid by the calendar month, benefit paid every four weeks. You are in arrears, it is up to you to bring your account up to date at the start of the month.

If, after thirteen four-weekly payments and where you have been making extra payments to stay balanced in advance, the landlord becomes unco-operative about sorting out a balance after the fourteenth payment then you can start moaning. Not until.

I am not stupid in the slightest, I was trying to make things easiest for everyone involved, I even asked LL if they were happy to wait for the payment from the council or should I pay the arrears now and get it paid to me and they just went on about a £20 top up.

Originally I planned it around the 2 months rent paid in advance but only 1 month actually due so when it was paid to LL it would be in advance anyway, I actually never would of taken the property if I knew it was constantly 2 months in advance, its cheap and just decorated (as in a slap of white paint on walls and cheapest carpet they could find) but its not actually a great property, cheap and a mile from town centre but I have gone for price over location and quality, if I waited a week more I could of got another flat on same estate for £200 and 1 month in advance and no deposit.


The problem is not that I am unable to pay but landlord thinks that despite being paid more than was due last month that somehow a top up is still due every month and the £142 overpaid last month does not exist.

The landlord is willing to get paid in arrears by council but says I need to pay £20 a month, how can £20 a month be owed if he was overpaid last month!

Viberduo

deannatrois wrote: »

I am afraid you're thinking is a bit cockeyed. When I moved into my property I had to pay one month's rent as deposit and one month in advance. So I paid two month's rent but on day of moving in, was only 1 month in advance. The deposit money is kept in a seperate pot.., it doesn't count as rent. I have to pay every calendar month on the day I moved in, regardless of when the council pays me LHA. So I have to top up any shortfall. I too get paid every 28 days (in fact i get paid every 14 so there are two payments each month roughly). This means that most months i get two payments but there are two months when I get three.., which is when it all evens out. If you get your LHA every 28 days, there will be one month when you get two LHA payments instead of one (you will get 13 payments a year instead of 12).


It took my council 6 weeks to process my LHA claim too, but I made sure I had the second months LHA in the bank before moving in so was covered.

Like most private tenants, there is nothing that can be done about this. LL's expect their payments on the same payment date every calendar month. They don't work on 28 day months. Like most renters, you will have to top up, but it will even out eventually.

Its just the way it works. I was just glad to have a place for me and my children to sleep. Perhaps you should be too. Your LL isn't interested in how your rent is paid or when, he/she just wants x amount per month on the same day each month. If you keep trying to argue the injustice of the system (which I agree it is in a way) you may find yourself regarded as an unreliable tenant who struggles to pay the rent because of the way its paid by the local authority and find your tenancy isn't renewed. Benefit recipient tenants have enough problems finding somewhere to live as it is!

Sorry you have misunderstood my stance, I could of paid 3 months in advance if needed in terms of having money in the bank, I can pay off what is owed this month instantly no issue, there was NO deposit paid just 2 months rent in advance(I am not stupid, I have been renting for 15 years, as a student, as a full time worker, on benefits, with a flatmate sharing the deposit, even offered a LL 4 months in advance once when I was on benefits and he still declined as I was signing on)

I am not denying the LHA is £20 short per month what I am saying is that when last months rent was due it was paid with a extra £142 on top so instead of LL saying I must top up £20 it should come off that £142 to whittle that down so by the time the LHA payment comes through on the same day(or earlier!) than the rent is due the £142 will be whittled down to nothing THEN I will pay the £20 per month.

That works out the "easiest" for both parties as long as the landlord is willing to wait a week every month, IF he is not I have no problem either paying the amount due on the rent due date I just would rather the payment from council go to the LL so no dispute can occur in the future i.e LL claims I have not been paying rent the council can turn around and say "oh you were paid on X date" as had instances before when LL's have used accountants and said rent was due then told me to pay, it was only when my social worker got involved and got him to check he confirmed it had indeed been paid(but never apologized)

Past ways I have paid when on benefits is pay in advance out of own pocket until lha catches up with rent pay date, then I pay it in as it comes i.e lha comes through 4 days before rent is due I pay it to LL 4 days before its due, when it becomes like 28 days early I then do not pay LL for a few weeks ince they got payments earlier and earlier.

I do not like or want to be in arrears I just want a good pattern of payment, if landlord told me he wanted FULL payment on the 2nd and was not willing to wait for council paying behind I would pay it on time and sell possessions if need be.

I am NOT trying to get out of paying or anything.

BigAunty

On the housing forum you outline that you are vulnerable and have support workers. Are any of these able to resolve these issues on your behalf?

Could you politely ask the landlord to produce a breakdown of your payments and arrears to help with your calculations?

Tenants who struggle to understand their arrears/credits, particularly when the monthly rent due/fortnightly or 28 day HB payment cycles are out of synch, are sometimes recommended to produce a spreadsheet that lists when rent is due, when rent is paid and for each period, the plus/minus figures in the third column.

Viberduo

BigAunty wrote: »

On the housing forum you outline that you are vulnerable and have support workers. Are any of these able to resolve these issues on your behalf?

Could you politely ask the landlord to produce a breakdown of your payments and arrears to help with your calculations?

Tenants who struggle to understand their arrears/credits, particularly when the monthly rent due/fortnightly or 28 day HB payment cycles are out of synch, are sometimes recommended to produce a spreadsheet that lists when rent is due, when rent is paid and for each period, the plus/minus figures in the third column.

No as I moved to new area I am waiting list to find new workers, however its not me that is struggling to understand credit and arrears as I know x amount is due on x date I also know the council pays in arrears and have already paid X amount(in this case £417)

I have been to university and understood the work fine and got good grades(left due to stress and depression though) so its not like I am a confused person its just my disability makes me think in logical patterns.

missbiggles1

As you seem to have a certain amount of money behind you, why don't you separate the 4 weekly LHA and monthly rent entirely and pay your LL from your own account and have the LHA paid directly to you?

This isn't an option open to all claimants but would make your life simpler and enable you to live more tranquilly.

Viberduo

missbiggles1 wrote: »

As you seem to have a certain amount of money behind you, why don't you separate the 4 weekly LHA and monthly rent entirely and pay your LL from your own account and have the LHA paid directly to you?

This isn't an option open to all claimants but would make your life simpler and enable you to live more tranquilly.

That was what I said at the start of the thread, I will do that if I have to and think that is the only real solution, it is not simpler for me though as I have severe depression and I have aspergers.

missbiggles1

Viberduo wrote: »

That was what I said at the start of the thread, I will do that if I have to and think that is the only real solution, it is not simpler for me though as I have severe depression and I have aspergers.

I'm sorry that I missed that but I can't see how it wouldn't be simpler for you regardless of your medical conditions. Just set up a DD to your LL and then (as long as your benefit us paid regularly) you can forget about it.