replacement of phoneline leading to house

moneyistooshorttomention

Can anyone answer a query as to whether BT (aka OpenReach) have an official obligation to maintain a phoneline to a house once it exists (and is being used) in the first place. This obligation to still exist even if maintenance turns out to mean having to totally replace the existing line.

I ask because I have a bit of a problem and an OpenReach engineer muttered about not being allowed to change a phoneline that was over a certain length:think: (due to costs involved to them).

I would think he must have misunderstood their policy and that they might have a policy that says they won't put in a phoneline where none existed in the first place if its over a certain length of phoneline involved BUT they have to maintain an already existing phoneline (however far it is from their main "box in road") and if "maintenance" means "replace already existing phoneline" then it doesn't matter what length the line is (ie because it already exists) and its a matter of keeping the already existing service working as normal, rather than adding a new service iyswim.

Browntoa

why do you think it needs replacing ??

moneyistooshorttomention

Because the phoneline is so old and has already had to have a section replaced because of that.

My broadband is intermittent and I can hear some noise on the line and I know there isn't a problem with my computer itself.

So they obviously haven't replaced enough of that phoneline (ie "over a certain length").

talktalktobt

If I remember correctly, Openreach have a responsibility to your provider to maintain the network and not you. This is why you can't engage with openreach directly. But, yes. Openreach are responsible for all wiring up-to the master socket.

If your line is old, it may simply be the case that your MasterSocket is a very old model and needs upgrading. You can buy them and do-it-yourself for less than £10 (it is very simple)... however... you might want to find out who owns/ who is responsible for the parts of wiring first.

moneyistooshorttomention

My Mastersocket is a very new style one and there is certainly no fault that is "anything to do with me".

Does anyone know if OpenReach will change a phoneline that is already in existence if its over a certain length?

iniltous

generally the cable feeding your property isn't 1 continuous cable to the exchange the cables from the exchange reduce in size the closer you get to your house, these cables are jointed together..Openreach obligation is to provide your provider a 'local loop' that corresponds to a set technical standard, if it's defective in some way, OR could decide to move your connection into another cable that goes to the same place, or a spare pair that isn't defective in the same cable, if the cable you are on has no spares (that are not also faulty) they may replace a section of that cable ( where the fault is) but they won't replace the entire cable
Many underground engineers may complain that they are always working on a particular section of cable, indicating it's in a poor state of repair, but that doesn't mean they will replace it, they may just repair the individual pairs in it as required,
All your provider, and you in turn, can expect is to be on a non faulty pair, not a brand new pair

Retrogamer

It can be a bit complicated in these matters.

BT only "have to" replace a line which consistently fails their very basic line test. The rest is ran from their equipment they carry and remotely on some exchanges. If the test meets the minimum standards (IIRC they're set by Offcom) then they don't "need to" replace the line

They usually will it it's at a reasonable cost but to replace the whole line is likely several thousands at a conservative estimate. I've seen some quotes of 100k in my time before for lines running to rural areas and as bad as it is, that cost can't be justified.

When i worked with ISP's we had a customer who had 12mb at the pole outside their home (as per engineer findings)
The socket at their home only got 500kbps.
The reason for this was the cables running under the garden were made from aluminium rather than copper.
The customer raised it with us and we raised it with Openreach, then Openreach complaints, then the Openreach service manager.
They refused to replace the cables as even though that was causing the issue, they said the line test was meeting the minimum requirements and that was the end of it as there was no one left to complain to. Top of the food chain.

moneyistooshorttomention

Retrogamer wrote: »

It can be a bit complicated in these matters.

BT only "have to" replace a line which consistently fails their very basic line test. The rest is ran from their equipment they carry and remotely on some exchanges. If the test meets the minimum standards (IIRC they're set by Offcom) then they don't "need to" replace the line

They usually will it it's at a reasonable cost but to replace the whole line is likely several thousands at a conservative estimate. I've seen some quotes of 100k in my time before for lines running to rural areas and as bad as it is, that cost can't be justified.

When i worked with ISP's we had a customer who had 12mb at the pole outside their home (as per engineer findings)
The socket at their home only got 500kbps.
The reason for this was the cables running under the garden were made from aluminium rather than copper.
The customer raised it with us and we raised it with Openreach, then Openreach complaints, then the Openreach service manager.
They refused to replace the cables as even though that was causing the issue, they said the line test was meeting the minimum requirements and that was the end of it as there was no one left to complain to. Top of the food chain.

That does surprise me.

I would have thought that "minimum requirements" in this day and age would include "reasonable Broadband speeds within the home". I came late to having home Internet, but am guessing that its just not possible to have "normal Broadband" (ie including being able to watch tv programmes/YouTube clips/etc on line) with less than 2MB at least?

If these "minimum standards" don't include "normal standard Broadband" then its definitely time those standards were amended to take account of living "in the real world" in the 21st century (ie where we all take for granted we will get a decent Internet connection).

Maybe the "minimum standards" have been raised to more appropriate/usable levels since then. Do you have a link to the most up-to-date "minimum standards"?

Buzby

Broadband is an irrelevance in the PSTN. The spec for a phone line does allow for a fax connection of 9600 - so your BB would be considerably faster than this. ADSL and it's derivatives have always been a kludge and attempt to make it work with any means. This is before you get to contention rates and backhaul limitations.

Retrogamer

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That does surprise me.

I would have thought that "minimum requirements" in this day and age would include "reasonable Broadband speeds within the home". I came late to having home Internet, but am guessing that its just not possible to have "normal Broadband" (ie including being able to watch tv programmes/YouTube clips/etc on line) with less than 2MB at least?

If these "minimum standards" don't include "normal standard Broadband" then its definitely time those standards were amended to take account of living "in the real world" in the 21st century (ie where we all take for granted we will get a decent Internet connection).

Maybe the "minimum standards" have been raised to more appropriate/usable levels since then. Do you have a link to the most up-to-date "minimum standards"?

Ideally you want about a 3.5mbps speed (consistent) to stream videos online with buffering but even with this some HD channels might struggle.

The problem with raising the minimum standards, is it would mean much more phone lines being replaced, more roads being dug up, more engineers to do the work and several millions money wise onto Opereach's expenditure.

To support it, they would need to drive up broadband costs for the customer's a great bit as well. So rather than £15 a month phone line and £12 a month broadband, it might be £25 a month phone line and £25 broadband (just pulling them out thin air, but a fair example)

Fibre to the cabinet should fix this in most heavily populated areas.
I've seen people who use broadband to work from home, move to rural areas without checking first and they're so far from the exchange that regular broadband isn't possible for them.