Parking Eye :-(((( newbie

davieboy33

just received a parking charge and so glad i looked online before paying.
After reading the forum i have sent the shortened letter to ParkingEye as follows :-
Dear xxxxxxxx

re PCN number xxxxxxx
I have received your parking invoice impersonating a 'parking ticket' and will be complaining in the strongest terms to your client since I am no customer of yours and no longer one of theirs, now. No doubt you convinced them that your operation is some sort of 'parking space maximisation scheme' when it is nothing of the sort and is simply there to maximise your own profits.

I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
A The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss.
B You are not the landowner and do not have locus standi.
C Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract.

If you choose not to cancel this invoice you must issue a rejection letter in reply to my appeal, explaining:
1 The legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
If you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis at POPLA, I will point out that it was a flawed decision, it is not binding, and it is set for the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.
2 Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site.
3 Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves.
4 A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.
5 The means to make an appeal to POPLA, otherwise you will be reported to the BPA and the DVLA.

A certificate of posting will be obtained for all my written responses and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

---

I am posting this here so i can update how i get on and seek help in any future returns from them.

any help now or in the future is very much appreciated in advance

Guys_Dad

Thanks for taking the time to read things up and following advice. Keep us updated and please post on this thread for continuity.

davieboy33

Ok so my appeal failed.. surprise surprise.

I have been sent a POPLA form but am struggling to understand what i should put on the form.

Is there a copy and paste or is each appeal completely different?

My girlfriend was driving and was stuck in the bank for an extra hr as their systems kept crashing, I know i don't mention the driver so thats clear

any help would be great, i know people have laid out a step by step but i am still finding it a little confusing.

many thanks in advance.

Dave.

Redx

each appeal is different

so read post #3 of the newbies thread, check the code is valid and check expiry, then look at the examples by clicking on the blue link , use the best one and adapt it in notepad

Dee140157

Since it is parking eye' there will be several in post 3 when you click through the How to win at POPLA link.

TheFlamingRed

I had a ParkingEye NTK a few weeks back, and our circumstances were not very far apart. Feel free to use it as a template and just amend it to fit your particular circumstances (my signage section is actually very generic as I have never been to the car park in question myself and have never seen the signs). Be sure to go through the Post 3 Newbie Thread though, in case there are a few more points you can add to your particular circumstances.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5015593

In retrospect, I would have probably left out the Unfair Terms section, as I just found that when doing my original search at POPLA appeals, and in hindsight after stalking this forum for the last month or so, doesn't appear to be important to POPLA.

My POPLA hearing was meant to be on the 19th, though they are still running behind it seems. A few days ago, I emailed POPLA to tell them I hadn't received an evidence pack from ParkingEye yet and the deadline was approaching (they added this to my evidence), so it looks like ParkingEye still won't contest these appeals and a win by default is most likely.

davieboy33

Thanks Flaming red, i will use that i think as it does seem similar, did you just delete 3.3 all together as i can't see it there anymore?
Thanks again.

TheFlamingRed wrote: »

I had a ParkingEye NTK a few weeks back, and our circumstances were not very far apart. Feel free to use it as a template and just amend it to fit your particular circumstances (my signage section is actually very generic as I have never been to the car park in question myself and have never seen the signs). Be sure to go through the Post 3 Newbie Thread though, in case there are a few more points you can add to your particular circumstances.


In retrospect, I would have probably left out the Unfair Terms section, as I just found that when doing my original search at POPLA appeals, and in hindsight after stalking this forum for the last month or so, doesn't appear to be important to POPLA.

My POPLA hearing was meant to be on the 19th, though they are still running behind it seems. A few days ago, I emailed POPLA to tell them I hadn't received an evidence pack from ParkingEye yet and the deadline was approaching (they added this to my evidence), so it looks like ParkingEye still won't contest these appeals and a win by default is most likely.

TheFlamingRed

davieboy33 wrote: »

Thanks Flaming red, i will use that i think as it does seem similar, did you just delete 3.3 all together as i can't see it there anymore?
Thanks again.

I did. 3.3 on my appeal discussed the non-inclusion of V.A.T within the invoice showing thst it is not a contractual change. I realised after much reading here that such a point should be raised for IPC company's initial appeals (e.g., when an IPC sends you an invoce which doesn't include V.A.T listed and they claim a contractual charge, you should for your invoice to be issued again with the V.A.T details included as it seems, some companies do not play by the V.A.T rules), and if they do not give that info, then raise it as an IAS appeal such that you can claim its a GPEOL instead of a contractual charge.

However, in our case, ParkingEye claim it is a GPEOL in their appeal rejection letter, so they are not contesting that the invoice is based on a contractual charge at all (as of now anyway). As such, Umkomaas rightly pointed out that such a paragraph adds nothing...

Do please read and edit the appeal where necessary so it fits your circumstance. Mine was in a Pay and Display car park, in daylight, where the driver did not leave the car and would have moved if they realise they were taking up space. If yours was a free car park, or if it was at night and the signs were not lot up, there are better paragraphs to use at various sections in the appeal then what I put together (which admittedly, was just minor edits of the original author's anyway.

davieboy33

Just a quick update,
I went to speak to the lease holder of the pub where the car park is, seems like a nice chap and says he gets about 10 a day.
I saw on hear that i can get the charge squashed by dealing direct with them rather than PE.
Just wondered if this is correct and what info i need to give and collect? (won't be telling them who the driver was.
I will still be lodging my POPLA tomorrow.
Many thanks in advance.
Dave.

ampersand

davieboy,
re:
'I went to speak to the lease holder of the pub where the car park is, seems like a nice chap and says he gets about 10 a day.
I saw on hear that i can get the charge squashed by dealing direct with them rather than PE'
#
Is it nice chap's signature on the contract held with PE?
Unlikely, I think.
I'm a little surprised that you didn't ask him then and there to exercise his power to cancel, if so.
Did he say he does anything about the '10 a day'? Surely others protest?
If, by some miracle he has the power to cancel these scam invoices, you need something to that effect accepted by pe. It would be a first.

Don't be distracted from your POPLA appeal though and def. run it here for checking before you send it off, obtaining a Cert. of Posting free from the PO.

davieboy33

I just popped in to ask if it was an option tbh, wasn't expecting to get to speak to anybody so didn't have any details on me of dates and times so i said i would go back with them.
He did say he has the ability to delete registration numbers from the system, as the computers where upstairs and when they have band nights he can override the system.