LLanroc Parking PCN in Cornwall - is it worth me appealing to PoPla?

Andrew72

Hi there,

I've read the Newbies Info and the PCN appeal flowchart on this forum but I think I read it a bit too late as I contacted Llanroc Parking to appeal before I found this forum

I emailed them this appeal, after getting the PCN on my windscreen ...

"I parked at Harveys Towans car park in Hayle on Friday afternoon about 2pm and paid £2.50 so I could stay until 7pm. I placed the parking ticket inside the windscreen and even stuck it to the windscreen with a sticky pad so that it wouldn't blow away when I shut the door.

When I returned to the car about 4 or 5pm I was confused to find a penalty notice slapped on my windscreen.

It seems as though the sticky pad, in the extreme heat in my car, had come unstuck and fallen onto the floor - taking the ticket with it.

The ticket was still facing the right way up.

I've attached a couple of photos of my ticket to prove that I had paid and not parked illegally.

Can you please cancel my penalty notice charge?"


As I didn't know about this forum I foolishly admitted in the email to Llanroc Parking that I was the driver.

I wanted to sort it out quickly, hoping they'd see sense.


They've "assessed" my appeal and refused it, saying I can appeal to PoPLA if I want ...

"Thank you for your letter of appeal with regards to Parking Charge Notice XXXXXXXXXX, issued by us on 25th July 2014. After much deliberation and having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, Llawnroc Parking Services Ltd has decided NOT to cancel this Parking Charge Notice and therefore have rejected your appeal for the following reasons:
1. We have looked at the photographs taken of your vehicle and you were not displaying a valid pay and display ticket or valid permit, therefore in breach of the terms and conditions of parking. Unfortunately we cannot accept your reason for not your displaying a pay & display ticket, or a ticket that has been produced at a later date because the ticket may not be the ticket that you had purchased and was obtained from another driver. A ticket must be DISPLAYED at the time when the operator visits the car park.

You now have a number of options:

• Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £50 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £90

• Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeal Service by completing the appeals form online at popla.org.uk If you wish to use this service we have supplied you with a unique 10 digit verification code number which is XXXXXXXXXX, the appeals service will not process your appeal without it. You should complete the form within 28 days of receiving the Notice of Rejection from us. Further instructions in filling out the form and how the service works is attached to the enclosed form. Please be advised that if you opt for the independent arbitration, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £40 and should POPLA’s decision NOT go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £90. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

• If you choose to do nothing we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our dept recovery procedures where extra charges will be added and may proceed with court action against you."

So, is it worth me appealing? Do I have a leg to stand on or should I just bite the bullet and pay £50.

If it's going to take up lots of time for me to appeal and be a hassle, I'd rather pay the £50 to get it sorted out.

However, I notice conflicting penalty amounts in their response. Their first option states "pay the prevailing price of £50" whereas option 2 (concerning appealing to PoPLA) states "the discounted rate of £40".

So, should I email and tell them I'm paying £40, as stated in their correspondence, or will that give me more grief?

What does the forum think I should do?

Thanks in advance!

bazster

I think you should read the Newbies thread where all your questions will be answered.

fisherjim

Of course you should appeal follow the advice in the newbies thread.

After much deliberation and having carefully considered the evidence provided by you

You surely don't believe this pack of lies do you, you paid, you can prove you paid so no one lost anything.

These scumbags only want money, the only careful deliberation they made was in getting your details right when they input them into their loathsome computer system.

ezerscrooge

This is what you do - You find a winning POPLA appeal (using the templates in the Newbies) and edit it. Post it on here for review before sending.

A good appeal will win - matters not a jot what happened on the day. Yes, you bought a ticket and it fell off the dashboard - this is how these firms get the money - petty little breaches oftheir parking terms.

Well we can play that gain - with breaches of the BPA CoP and Contract Law.

Miss_Maggoo

I thought their charge was £70 on Harveys Towans. Maybe they've been out with the magic stickers again.
If you can't be bothered to appeal pass it over to Parking Ticket appeals for the much smaller sum of £16.

Dee140157

It may well be worth checking the signage if you have time. You still have 2 weeks left in which to get the appeal in by to make sure it arrives on time.

So get drafting.

Andrew72

Wow, thanks everyone for your replies

I'm concerned that, because I've already admitted to the parking company that "I parked" in the car park that this will have an impact on my appeal to Popla.

If it won't affect my chances then I'll go ahead and appeal.

As I don't live anywhere near Cornwall I can't get any photos of the signage so I guess the only point I can contest on is that the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

Here's a copy of the PCN and my pay and display ticket (with the private bits blurred out)

drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhSVGX8viGBNXd4ckxEeXNKS0E/edit?usp=sharing

Here's my draft appeal to Popla. Hopefully I've not made any schoolboy errors!

Thanks again for everyone's advice, it's really appreicated.

================= APPEAL =========================

Dear POPLA,
I am the registered keeper & this is my appeal:

The Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

The Parking Charge Notice states "The vehicle was parked on private property in contravention of the site parking restrictions as displayed on the signage or permit".

This Operator must prove the charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. There is no loss flowing from this parking event because the pay and pisplay fee of £2.50 had been fully paid.

The ticket had been affixed to the windscreen of the vehicle but, in the heat of direct sunlight had become unstuck and landed on the floor of the vehicle - face up and certainly visible through the driver's door window.

There was no loss of potential income in a free car park.

This Operator cannot demonstrate any initial quantifiable loss. The parking charge must be an estimate of likely losses flowing from the alleged breach in order to be potentially enforceable. Where there is an initial loss directly caused by the presence of a vehicle in breach of the conditions (e.g. loss of revenue from failure to pay a tariff) this loss will be obvious.

An initial loss is fundamental to a parking charge and, without it, costs incurred by issuing the parking charge notice cannot be said to have been caused by the driver's alleged breach. Heads of cost such as normal operational costs and tax-deductible back office functions, debt collection, etc. cannot possibly flow as a direct consequence of this parking event. The Operator would have been in the same position had the parking charge notice not been issued, and would have had many of the same business overheads even if no vehicles breached any terms at all.

I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge is dismissed.

=============================================

Redx

firstly, admitting you were the driver wont have harmed your popla appeal by too much, but as you have admitted you were driving it causes certain safeguards toi be removed (explained in the newbies thread)

as for your popla appeal, it may win as its about gpeol, it may not win, but MY opinion is that it bears no resemblance to a proper popla appeal and is not relying on the 3 main issues seen in the template letter, never mind any more that could be added

if you wish to make a single point appeal (to test the water) then you can do, but I wouldnt. its not about what you think, its about elleging that various points are a problem and making the PPC jump through hoops to assure popla they are correct, so not a gpeol, no contract, poor signage etc are just the main 3

compare yours to one of the examples linked in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, or any recent approved popla appeals on here in other threads, then tell me which ones you prefer ?

once you have decided yours is lacking in details and appeal points, find a better one and adapt it in notepad, posting here for checking once more

HO87

I'm not entirely sure which template you used. I don't actually recognise what you have come up with. Whilst your version covers some of the important, winning points it does so in a somewhat wishy-washy manner and there are several that have been omitted in toto e.g. signage.

Although the appeal is most likely to win on the genuine pre-estimate of loss point, it is always advisable to include other relevant points.

Redx is on the money and is pointing you in the right direction.