named driver to reset clock

notparked

Hi,
1st PCN ignored using old advice :-( ,got to CCJ threat stage. named the driver to start appeal process.
PCN has now gone to drivers address and I haven't seen it yet.
I have seen 2 versions of an appeal letters, one quotes this

[FONT=&quot]remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) .

the other quotes

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.[/FONT]

I don't know which to use or can both be used?
I will post the appeal up before sending it but needed some clarification first thanks in advance

on previewing post the second version is later should this be the template I use ?

ok I'm editing my thread - I've confused myself
The second appeal letter which I quoted appears to be the most recent oon MSE, but it seems to be the Keeper's appeal.
Can this still be used by the driver?

Coupon-mad

The driver can appeal on whatever basis they want, no need to follow any exact template. Both could be used, or make up your own info seeing as the driver has been named - they can talk about radioactive spiders or zombie apocalypse issues delaying them if they want! I'm not really joking, relax and have a laugh reading the Parking Prankster's appeals last year:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/highview-parking-send-in-map-of-wrong.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/highview-parking-spurred-into-immediate.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/elvis-walks-free-map-department-fails.html

What I mean is - the whole point is the driver appeals (on any basis although it should have a point of appeal in it like 'not a genuine pre-estimate of loss') or the 'signage was not clear') and gets a POPLA code. That's assuming he can appeal as it was a postal PCN and this is the first he's seen of it. He won't be able to appeal if it was a windscreen PCN as his appeal chance has gone, but I assume you know this and it was a postal one all along?

Technically the most recent template is the one in the top thread, the 'NEWBIES read these FAQs first' sticky at the top.

notparked

thanks for quick reply Coupon-mad
yes it was Postal PCN ,driver at different address
So do I need to post up my appeal letter for checking?

Dee140157

Your first one no, as long as you have some of the basics in as Coupon-Mad said.

I drafted a really long appeal, full of the drama of the day as I was convinced I would get a PCN from an event 2 weeks ago and have been so far disappointed not to be able to send it as no PCN has been received.

The appeal despite being full of drama did contain references to it not being a realistic amount of money for the infringement, signs that were really difficult to read and questioned their authority to issue the charge. They were just cunningly concealed.

I won't say it was a work of fiction, because everything in the appeal was true, it was just said in a very creative way.

Sadly it looks like it was a waste of time, but hey ho, it was fun to write.

The aim of the first appeal is to get a POPLA code.,

That is the appeal you will need to get advice on the draft for before you send it off.

notparked

the driver has received the PCN, I noticed that the charge notice reference is different to the NTK charge reference notice, should they be the same?

Coupon-mad

No it doesn't matter - now the driver can appeal, that's great! You can adapt an appeal letter and show it here first if you want. Should be from the driver (not keeper).

notparked

here is the driver's appeal letter taken from newbie section amended for night time parking, can docs be attached instead of pasting?
Start

[FONT=&quot]Name[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Address[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Parking Charge Notice xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/FONT]

Dear ppc Ltd.,


PCN number [FONT=&quot]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/FONT]

I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay.
This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not 'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of night in similar conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours,

End

---

thanks in advance

Dee140157

I believe docs can be attached as evidence. So write that you are appealing and attaching appeal as evidence. Make sure all details of PCN number etc are on appeal.

Jus be certain it is a PPC that accepts email appeals. You could belt and braces and send a paper copy too.

notparked

sorry I confused the question .
I meant can my word doc be 'uploaded' as an attachment to this forum instead of pasting text into message area, but that was a by the by.

Can someone please check the appeal as being acceptable to send to the ppc.

thanks

Dee140157

Make sure you know which one

POPLA or the IAS

It will depend on the PPC. Which is it?

Umkomaas

notparked wrote: »

sorry I confused the question .
I meant can my word doc be 'uploaded' as an attachment to this forum instead of pasting text into message area, but that was a by the by.

Can someone please check the appeal as being acceptable to send to the ppc.

thanks

Is your appeal exactly as per the NEWBIES sticky? If not, what changes and why? If you're expecting anything other than a rejection with a POPLA code, then you're wasting intellectual energy and a part of your life which you won't get back.

Go exactly as per the sticky, put any energy you have into your POPLA appeal.