gas vs electricity

redkoatz

So I am making decisions about what kind of heaters or cooking appliances to get.
And being in the uk Wales, specifically, my gas and electricity supplier are both swalec.
I visited their site and it appears they have a normal daytime electricity rate, a night time electricity rate and a seperate gas rate (only has a standard rate not night rate)

The rates are roughly as follows:
day electricty 15 p
night time plan day 18 night .7.8

Gas 5.88

So it seems gas is clearly cheaper, even cheaper than the night time energy saver on electricty.
However the agent adivising me on which tariff I should choose, first started out by suggesting storage heaters, which is apparently some device which heats up during the night time rate on that special tariff, and gradually releases the stored heat through the day, without actually being turned on, thus heating all day but using the cheap nightly rates on that particular tariff.

I questioned the agent, who used this example as a major reason the night time electricty rate in conjunction with a storage heater would save my heating bills.

I said that gas would still be cheaper than that tariff as it's only 5 p per kwh whereas the energy saving electric tariff is obviously only 8 p per kwh .and that is only valid from particular hours, ( think 12-7:30)
I suggested that If I instead concentrated on gas, and had a gas heater, I wouldn't have to purchase a storage heater, as I could have it on whenever I want, the same rate applies 24 hours a day .
and If I have also a gas oven, I will further save.

the agent claimed that because of the complicated why the energy rate is calculated , even though the figures say 5. kwh for gas and 8 for electricty, it actually ends up being cheaper in electricty?

I can imagine how for example electricty might save some money, as an electric oven becomes hot immediately, whereas gas needs to pre heat. but going be the rates it just doesn't add up?

Any suggestions?

webnise

Gas tariffs are actually converted into KWH using a rather complicated formula:

Imperial meter:
1) Number of units used 100
2) Convert from imperial to metric – multiply number of units used by 2.83 283
3) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 289.407
4) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 11373.699
5) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 3159.361

Metric Gas Meter
1) Number of units used 100
2) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 102.264
3) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 4018.975
4) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 1116.382

So it is not a straight forward 5p KWH of gas calculation.

From my personal experience, Gas usually costs more than electricity over a period of 12 months.

Have you checked any other energy supplier that supplies in your postcode?

PasturesNew

With gas there's the cost of maintenance. Annual servicing and boiler replacement.
With storage heaters, if you're out all day you're not getting the benefit of them and by the time you get home they've gone off/cold.

Nada666

webnise wrote: »

Gas tariffs are actually converted into KWH using a rather complicated formula:

Imperial meter:
1) Number of units used 100
2) Convert from imperial to metric – multiply number of units used by 2.83 283
3) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 289.407
4) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 11373.699
5) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 3159.361

Metric Gas Meter
1) Number of units used 100
2) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 102.264
3) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 4018.975
4) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 1116.382

So it is not a straight forward 5p KWH of gas calculation.

From my personal experience, Gas usually costs more than electricity over a period of 12 months.

Have you checked any other energy supplier that supplies in your postcode?

What relevance has any of that with the price per kWh?

webnise

Nada666 wrote: »

What relevance has any of that with the price per kWh?

Was trying to respond to this question by OP:

" the agent claimed that because of the complicated why the energy rate is calculated , even though the figures say 5. kwh for gas and 8 for electricty, it actually ends up being cheaper in electricty? "

pvt

redkoatz wrote: »

And being in the uk Wales, specifically, my gas and electricity supplier are both swalec.

You can buy your gas and electricity from any supplier, not just the one associated with your own region. Buying from the one that historically supplied your region will usually be the most expensive.

r2015

Buying from the one that historically supplied your region will usually be the most expensive

That is one of the reasons I can never get my electricity from Scottish Hydro.

colinsmithathome

Dear r,

gas all day long!

'tis cheaper, 'tis controllable when you want it.
The salesman is talking cobblers about electricity being cheaper as the gas price is "complicated".

In general people only choose electric heating if they're there all day and...

...there is no mains gas available!

regards,
Jet

redkoatz

colinsmithathome wrote: »

Dear r,

gas all day long!

'tis cheaper, 'tis controllable when you want it.
The salesman is talking cobblers about electricity being cheaper as the gas price is "complicated".

In general people only choose electric heating if they're there all day and...

...there is no mains gas available!

regards,
Jet

so gas is even cheaper than the night time rate for electricity?

pvt

Well that depends on where you buy your gas and electricity from - but generally, yes, kWh for kWh consumed gas is cheaper than off-peak electricity.

However....

The important difference is what you can do with either - pretty much all you can do with gas is burn it and get, at best, about 925kWh of heat into your home for every 1,000kWh of gas you consume. Whereas with electricity, it is 100% efficient so you'll get 1,000kWh of heat from 1,000kWh of electricity, if you consume it directly (resistive heating like a radiant heater, storage heater, immersion heater, cooker, or kettle).

But the real complication comes when you use electricity to run a heat pump - that allows electricity to be used to provide far more heat energy than the actual electricity consumed, so you might get 2,500kWh of usable heat from 1,000kWh of electricity. Now all of a sudden off-peak, and even peak, electricity may be cheaper than gas.

A heat pump can only realistically be used to heat your home and water, and the efficiency varies with outside temperature, but it will always be well above 100% efficient.

Andy_WSM

webnise wrote: »

Gas tariffs are actually converted into KWH using a rather complicated formula:

Imperial meter:
1) Number of units used 100
2) Convert from imperial to metric – multiply number of units used by 2.83 283
3) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 289.407
4) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 11373.699
5) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 3159.361

Metric Gas Meter
1) Number of units used 100
2) Multiply by volume correction factor (1.022640) 102.264
3) Multiply by calorific value (39.3) 4018.975
4) Divide by kWh conversion factor (3.6) 1116.382

So it is not a straight forward 5p KWH of gas calculation.

From my personal experience, Gas usually costs more than electricity over a period of 12 months.

Have you checked any other energy supplier that supplies in your postcode?

Well that's all a load of irrelevant nonsense. Sorry.

A kW of enery is a kW of energy in whatever form.

As PVT says above, it's what you do with it that matters.

If you're going to just plug a 2kW electric heater in to your supply then you will pay 2*your kW price (lets assume 14p), so lets say 28p.

If you turn on a gas fire and run it at 2kW input you will get less than 2kW of heat out as some of the heat goes out the flue. But, if gas is say 4p per kW then it's only cost you 8p for a similar amount of heat.

If you use a cheap rate tariff to charge up storage heaters overnight, these continue to emit heat throughout the day until they have run out. Disadvantages are that they heat the room in the day when you may not be there and may have run out of heat by late evening. They're also big & ugly.