Help advice needed re employing casual help

tkwad

Can I please ask for friendly advice?


My partner has begun as a sole trader but the nature of his work will call for extra hands but on an irregular basis.




My understanding of any of this is very naïve, its all totally new.... but I am thinking if he asks self employed people if they are available then pays them for any work done then they are responsible for paying their own tax and NI on that money but he can put it through his business as a legitimate labour expense? (are there any forms he needs to fill in for this purpose?)


Some former work colleagues of his are keen to work for him but not interested in registering as self employed, so he would be faced with employing them but can not guarantee hours, (not even for himself) .... would a zero hours contract need to be in place? and would this need to be done through PAYE? which I know means he would have to register as an employer, and if so do those he employs accrue holiday pay and sick pay on the actual hours worked??


This is totally overwhelming me just now and I really appreciate any helpful advice.

Pennywise

Sadly, it's a minefield. The best/simplest online resource I've found is the gov.uk website on employing people:-

https://www.gov.uk/browse/employing-people/payroll

It's not particularly in depth, but it gives you the basics and then you can quickly see what else you need to research.

Basically, even casual workers trigger loads of employment issues such as need to have employers liability insurance, contract of employment, health & safety, employee rights, etc. If you pay them regularly, or their pay is high enough, then you need to register with HMRC as an employer and run payroll and regular submissions to HMRC (even just to say nothing's been paid that week/month!)

Luckily, these days, all you need to know is a click away via Google, but you do have to commit to spending some time doing the research unfortunately.

If your OH is engaged in the construction industry, then it may all come under the construction industry scheme instead of payroll, in which case he'd need to register with HMRC as a contractor and maybe subcontractor, as tax is dealt with differently.

Mistral001

He might have to look more widely than the group of people he used to work with. If he clearly states that he is putting all payment through the books and that he pays by cheque, it should off the tax dodgers. They will probably charge more than the tax dodgers, but it probably will be cheaper than becoming an employer.

tkwad

Basically, even casual workers trigger loads of employment issues such as need to have employers liability insurance, ( has this)


contract of employment, ( zero hours?)


health & safety, (Have this)


employee rights, etc.(
If you pay them regularly, or their pay is high enough, then you need to register with HMRC as an employer and run payroll and regular submissions to HMRC (even just to say nothing's been paid that week/month!)
(this is the bit im unsure of)
Luckily, these days, all you need to know is a click away via Google, but you do have to commit to spending some time doing the research unfortunately.

If your OH is engaged in the construction industry, then it may all come under the construction industry scheme instead of payroll, in which case he'd need to register with HMRC as a contractor and maybe subcontractor, as tax is dealt with differently.[/QUOTE]


(He is a landscape gardener/house clearance and cleaner, has enquired and does not come under "the scope of the scheme")

Thank you so much for your reply

tkwad

Mistral001 wrote: »

He might have to look more widely than the group of people he used to work with. If he clearly states that he is putting all payment through the books and that he pays by cheque, it should off the tax dodgers. They will probably charge more than the tax dodgers, but it probably will be cheaper than becoming an employer.

I have asked him to consider advertising for self employed casual help as and when needed)

Cazza

HMRC's website info on becoming an em[loyer is really good and the people on the other end of the phone at their "New employer's helpline" are really helpful too. OH runs a small buiness doing painting, decorating, carpentry etc and has just taken on his first employee so I've recently been through the process myself. HMRC's Basic PAYE tool can be downloaded and provided you don't employ more than 9 people is all you need to report the info back. It's (relatively) easy to get your head around, just get yourself a cuppa and a quite hour or so with no one disturbing you first before you tackle it!

I also made quite a few phonecalls to ACAS, to check we were doing things correctly and ask questions, they were really helpful and helped us to make the decision between zero hours or another type of contract.

Aquamania

tkwad wrote: »

I have asked him to consider advertising for self employed casual help as and when needed)

He can advertise for whatever he wants, but ultimately HMRC will decide if this is employment or not (even if on a casual basis).

There's info on the HMRC website about what is considered deemed employment. If it is deemed your OH is employing them, then he must treat them as employees (even if on a casual basis) and if will be expected to pay HMRC their tax & NI even if he fails to deduct it from their pay.

The fact you stated this thread about employing people on a casual basis suggests to me it probably is employment unless your OH changes his requirements e.g. if he doesn't care who the self employed trader sends along to do the actual work (as long as the trader employs competent persons to do it)

There's nothing new about casual employment, although their rights have been strengthened and the newer term of zero hours contract appears the more modern terminology for such employment.

Casual workers today, for example, are entitled to statutory sick pay (terms apply) and accrue holiday pay/entitlement.

tkwad

Cazza wrote: »

HMRC's website info on becoming an em[loyer is really good and the people on the other end of the phone at their "New employer's helpline" are really helpful too. OH runs a small buiness doing painting, decorating, carpentry etc and has just taken on his first employee so I've recently been through the process myself. HMRC's Basic PAYE tool can be downloaded and provided you don't employ more than 9 people is all you need to report the info back. It's (relatively) easy to get your head around, just get yourself a cuppa and a quite hour or so with no one disturbing you first before you tackle it!

I also made quite a few phonecalls to ACAS, to check we were doing things correctly and ask questions, they were really helpful and helped us to make the decision between zero hours or another type of contract.

I found the information of the new employer helpline last night but they are currently taking industrial action LOL ! I have a very active 4 year old so I have no time to myself, this whole period of my life is so stressful my partner has just been made redundant (last day yesterday) Thank you so much for your advice especially about ACAS! (did you go for zero hours in the end?)

My partner is thinking of a 1 month zero hours to start with to see how things go...its really difficult as the work load is so sporadic

tkwad

Aquamania wrote: »

He can advertise for whatever he wants, but ultimately HMRC will decide if this is employment or not (even if on a casual basis).


As I said in my OP I am very new to this, I thought self employed people were responsible for paying their own tax and Ni payments? I know my partner now is....


The fact you stated this thread about employing people on a casual basis suggests to me it probably is employment unless your OH changes his requirements e.g. if he doesn't care who the self employed trader sends along to do the actual work (as long as the trader employs competent persons to do it)



Maybe I should have worded it differently in relation to self employed, would it be more appropriate to refer to self employed as providing services?

There's nothing new about casual employment, although their rights have been strengthened and the newer term of zero hours contract appears the more modern terminology for such employment.

Casual workers today, for example, are entitled to statutory sick pay (terms apply) and accrue holiday pay/entitlement.

Thanks for your reply all helpful comments are welcomed while we try to get through this new situation

Cazza

Not great timing from HMRC - although I think they're open quite late in the day and at weekends so might be possible to get hold of them when DP can keep an eye on the 4 year old! I'm sure I managed to get hold of them on the late May bank holiday, much to my surprise!

DH decided against a zero hours contract in the end - when he looked into it the employee has certain rights which he wasn't totally comfortable with (ie, the employer doesn't have to offer work but when work is offered the employee has the right to turn it down) and he was concerned the bad press around them might put off people that could be good employees. He settled on a permanent contract with a short time working / lay off clause included. All the different contracts will have rights and responsibilites for both the employer and the employee, it's a case of weighing up the pros and cons from your perspective and I did find ACAS were really helpful with this.

He's ended up recruiting on a part time basis. The employee is studying a related subject at the local college and spends 2 days a week at college and 3 days with DH. It's not an apprenticeship but means the employee is gaining work based experience which is linked with what he wants to do.

re Aquamania's post, regarding it not being your partner's or the "other party's" decision about being employed, this might help explain it a little... http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm

paddyrg

I've just been on a job that lasted 4 weeks. Fine for me, invoiced through my ltd company, however we had a dozen people we had to pay through payroll, some even for 2 days of work! It's a minefield, you have to provision for NI, holiday, pension enrolment, running the payroll, payslips, p45's, everything. It's a big deal. It's a big enough deal that I would happily pay someone else to do it just to make it go away.

As such, perhaps he can employ them through a temping agency? Yes, he'll pay a premium, but against the extra cost and hassle of administering it, he may well still be ahead!