Lack of jobs and outsourcing overseas

Takeaway_Addict

liddiaellen wrote: »

I find your attitude rude and arrogant. Yes I understand the costs of maintaining a UK workforce have worked in finance for many years. I however believe that many companies are not happy abroad and would like to come home, and if we were to help ease their burden in doing so we should as it will create jobs.
If you think more money is required how about the billions that are being paid in Tax credits to immigrants from other EU states we could free up that or are billions not enough either.
I posed a question, i think would help create jobs, after all something needs to be done.
You came back with a pompous derogatory attitude.
A simple I do not agree but we could do this or it would cost this, which we can get from here would of been more productive to the conversation.

You need to harden up if you find that offensive...

Costs is primarily the reason for outsourcing, not doing so makes companies uncompetitive on the whole.

Takeaway_Addict

Those talking about immigration being a net benefit do forget that there are over 2m unemployed (just on the official lists). If immigration had not been an open door policy then a lot of these jobs would be done by those unemployed and as such their net contribution would be higher than the immigrants working to the economy as they won't be draining the social fund.

Controlled Immigration is good for the country. Open door immigration is just utterly wrong.

getmore4less

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Those talking about immigration being a net benefit do forget that there are over 2m unemployed (just on the official lists). If immigration had not been an open door policy then a lot of these jobs would be done by those unemployed and as such their net contribution would be higher than the immigrants working to the economy as they won't be draining the social fund.

Controlled Immigration is good for the country. Open door immigration is just utterly wrong.

The problem is a lot of the jobs are jobs no one wants to do thats why they are available to migrant workers.

That's one reason the USA has an open illegal immigrant policy as well as it suppreses minimmum waged demands the economy would collaps if you tried to get "Americans" doing some of the jobs.

liddiaellen

getmore4less wrote: »

The problem is a lot of the jobs are jobs no one wants to do thats why they are available to migrant workers.

That's one reason the USA has an open illegal immigrant policy as well as it suppreses minimmum waged demands the economy would collaps if you tried to get "Americans" doing some of the jobs.

A lot of jobs are in IT, manufacturing and accounts. I am not sure what you mean about jobs nobody wants.
Many people that have been looking for ages will take anything they can do. I have nearly 20 years accounts experience and many interviewers have hardly any they reject me as to much experience.
We need more jobs in the UK its simple.

Takeaway_Addict

getmore4less wrote: »

The problem is a lot of the jobs are jobs no one wants to do thats why they are available to migrant workers.

That's one reason the USA has an open illegal immigrant policy as well as it suppreses minimmum waged demands the economy would collaps if you tried to get "Americans" doing some of the jobs.

We can't change what has happened but if we had not had an open door policy I would expect NMW to be higher than it is now if employers have to pay more to keep staff for the same time they do now.

InsideInsurance

liddiaellen wrote: »

Many people that have been looking for ages will take anything they can do.

See, this is where things go from fact into opinion.

From a personal perspective; wife used to be a manager for a well known convenience food place and they had a fairly steady turnover of staff. At least 95% of applications were from non-UK born people. Its hard to recruit people if they arent apply for the jobs!

Secondly, our cousin moved to the UK, a spanish national from south america. He's a fully qualified civil engineer and has done this line of work back home, in the UK, Australia and UAE. Within 2 working days of being in the UK he had job offers at Pret, Krispy Kreme and a cleaning company. Now obv not the jobs he wants but gives him an income whilst looking get back into his field and you did say about taking any job.

Thirdly, the UK work ethic is terrible and I do include mine in that. To be honest a lot of europeans arent great. Look to the USA, Far East etc and its simply normal practice to have very early starts or work late etc and you celebrate getting away on time not moan about having to stay late. Its hard to recruit a 9-5er over someone who's willing to put the time in thats required when you know the reality is that the peaks and troughs of workload will require late working occasionally etc



From a non-personal perspective, there have been a number of documentaries where companies/ industries that are known for hiring non-UK born people took on a number of long term unemployed who said they'd "do anything". Farm work, factory work, food places like Pret. Less than 10% even made it through the series and of those that did the managers said they wouldnt hire them anyway due to lateness/ time keeping/ productivity/ absence type issues.

Now of cause I accept this is TV and so there will be an element of entertainment and inevitably the producers will have a point they want to make (though that could be pro or against immigration). I would however trust that these were genuine people who said they'd do anything "given the chance" and then very clearly proved in the vast majority of cases, they wouldnt.

cazziebo

I agree we need more jobs, and I agree that we need jobs that pay a living wage on real employment contracts.

However, many companies will recruit the best person for the role and there's no getting away from the fact that in many cases, that will be a migrant worker. No entitlement mindset, positive attitude, reliable, get on with the job. In the companies I work with who employ migrant workers, they are on the same (usually upper quartile) salaries and conditions as everyone else so it's not about cost saving.

I used to do a lot of recruitment. Like another poster reports on here, the standard of applications was poor. If I got 100 applicants, 50 of them would not have read the job description. More than 50 of them would have CVs with poor grammar and spelling. You could be sure at least one interviewee wouldn't show up, and very few would have researched the company. We have to look at ourselves before throwing blame around elsewhere.

liddiaellen

tomtontom wrote: »

You lost any credibility when you sought to blame immigrants. You'll find that the net economic benefit of immigration is positive, they are certainly not costing the country billions in the way you suggest.

If you can back up your assertions with facts, rather than what you 'believe' you may attract more favourable responses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2710189/This-Polish-boy-lives-Warsaw-So-WE-pay-child-benefit.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2710158/Exclusive-The-inconvenient-truth-Mr-Cameron-ignored-crackdown-immigrant-benefits-Migrants-handed-5billion-tax-credits.html

want more articles loads out there with facts

liddiaellen

cazziebo wrote: »

I agree we need more jobs, and I agree that we need jobs that pay a living wage on real employment contracts.

However, many companies will recruit the best person for the role and there's no getting away from the fact that in many cases, that will be a migrant worker. No entitlement mindset, positive attitude, reliable, get on with the job. In the companies I work with who employ migrant workers, they are on the same (usually upper quartile) salaries and conditions as everyone else so it's not about cost saving.

I used to do a lot of recruitment. Like another poster reports on here, the standard of applications was poor. If I got 100 applicants, 50 of them would not have read the job description. More than 50 of them would have CVs with poor grammar and spelling. You could be sure at least one interviewee wouldn't show up, and very few would have researched the company. We have to look at ourselves before throwing blame around elsewhere.

I have looked hard, I spell check and get my OH to proof read every application. I write for trade and industry magazines for free who in return print my name and email address , I am very active on linked in and twitter. Job centre consultant says am most pro active person she has ever seen and my thinking is very original apart from doing the normal stuff.

I attend interviews with my file always arive early normally to be kept waiting have researched the company normally to be interviewed by someone who I am not sure if they have read my C.V.

Yes I am angry and emotional and upset, I really cannot do any more.

I have researched all the facts that I have used to make my opinions, this has taken me weeks.

I know what I am saying, I know why I am saying it and base everything on facts and experience.

InsideInsurance

If you are at the grade of writing for trade press then you are probably outside of the level that job centres are equipped to deal with, at least for your own industry.

To the best of my knowledge I've never interviewed you so cannot give personal advice. At the end of the day however, job applications and interviewing etc are all skills in themselves. I know some people in my field that really struggle to get new jobs and have big breaks in their CV (which obv compounds the issue). Others have 20 years of doing the job, switching every 1-2 years and dont have a single days break.

Having known both, I certainly wouldnt say that it was their skill in the job that causes the differentiation as some of the no breaks guys I would never give a job to having worked with them.

A former colleague was struggling, he was sending 10 applications a day or so to jobs advertised on a board and was getting a very low hit rate and certainly no job offers. He, in my opinion, had a poor CV that didnt have the right focus. He was sending an application to an agent and then sitting back, in this industry that simply wont get you anywhere 90% of the time and you have to be more proactive. Phone them, sell yourself. Point out how you've done what their client wants before and gone beyond etc.

Theres also tricks to the trade, he was using a terrible job board, there is one key one for the jobs he wants to get and he'd never heard of it. His CV was private, linkedin profile private. Unfortunately you need to !!!!! yourself a little and take the rubbish calls as a consequence.

It is hard out there, but not impossible, and immigrants are not the cause and blocking them not the solution