Excluded occupier advice needed!

kwallace

Hi all
This is my first post here so will try not to drip feed etc.
I am the sole tenant. With written permission of my landlady I took in someone to rent the spare bedroom (I knew the flatmate beforehand). There was no written agreement or deposit (big mistake I know) and they are not named on the Main Tenancy Agreement or the protected deposit. The flatmate agreed to pay a certain amount but promised when the new bills came through she would contribute more. The new bills came in and she refused to contribute. I have been lumbered with all the bills and more than half the rent. She pays her rent to me and I pay the whole rent as one payment to my landlady.

My flatmate does not help clean (despite this being agreed to be split when she moved in) and I have become very stressed with the situation - I had to ask her to do basic things (such as washing up what she uses) etc, this is met with sarcastic response. This morning she left a blocked toilet for me to sort out...

She gave verbal notice mid July (after speaking to her again) that she will be moving out. Then via text to say she will be moving out mid August, followed by a letter. The rent is paid up to this period. However, after this morning's discovery I do not want to continue living in a place where she creates a terrible atmosphere.

I have spoken to CAB and Shelter. They have advised she is an excluded occupier (as she pays her rent to me I am her landlord) so there is no legal minimum notice I need to give back to her - it just has to be reasonable. Can I consider a week before the date she gave to be reasonable (and will give it in writing)? Which means 3 weeks since she gave verbal notice. I am willing to pro rata what rent she has paid to give back to her to cover that last week, but is that too much especially since she has not paid any bills?

She has no regard for my feelings or how she has treated me but I still want to make sure I do things right now. Thank you for your advice!

HappyMJ

A day is reasonable in some circumstances so if you can put up with her for a week then that'll be fine.

There is no right or wrong with lodgers. You try them and if it doesn't work out you ask them to move on. It's your house...your rules apply.

You do not need a written agreement...in fact a written agreement can be a hindrance as it could create a condition in which it is more favourable for your lodger that the implied conditions already regarding lodgers and their rights which as you've found out is just reasonable notice.

edit: and next time charge a lodger with all bills included (remember to add a bit to your existing bills to cover higher usage) and always collect the money in advance. I charged a slightly higher rate in winter to cover the higher gas usage at that time of the year.

kwallace

Thank you for the fast reply!

She gave verbal one months notice on the 20th July. Text on the 23rd July to say she is moving out on the 16th August. And then in writing. But I can't live with her for that long now. Her words to me (I happened to be up when she left for work) were - 'the toilet is blocked, I need to go to work, you are home all day (I work in a school so am on hols at the moment) so you need to sort it.' I really can't live with this disrespect from someone any more.

I would now like her to move out on the 10th August by 1pm. I have advised her (via Shelter) that any damages to the room up to that point or whilst she is removing furniture on move out day will be her liability as I did not take a deposit.

Is the 10th considered reasonable - if I give her it in writing today? (Shelter said it was up to me as 2 weeks would be considered reasonable).

Should I offer to give her back one week's payment as the rent is paid up until the 16th?

Thank you again!

BitterAndTwisted

If she hasn't contributed towards the bills when she originally agreed to do so, then I would not return any of her damned money!

Give her a week's notice this evening and then arrange for the barrel of the locks to be changed next Sunday evening.

She's your lodger and has few, if any rights whatsoever. "Reasonable" notice depends on the circumstances, and this particular circumstance to me would be long enough for her to pack her damned back and get the hell out. A week would be being very generous.

HappyMJ

You do give it back but you say I'm giving you your weeks rent in advance back and I'll use that towards the outstanding bills which I said were due so I owe you nothing and you owe me nothing. Thank you very much enjoy your life. bye...

Verbal notice is all that is required. Nothing in writing at all. In fact a lodger doesn't need to give any notice at all. They could say on rent day I've had enough I'm moving out today and you have no claim against them.

You haven't taken a deposit. Oh well. You do have a claim against her if the room is damaged but the chance of you actually getting anything is pretty much zero. I wouldn't bother trying to raise a court claim you should at least take a deposit or be prepared for some damage. It's fairly easy to resolve anyway...if they damage anything they fix it straight away/next day by negotiation or leave forfeiting any deposit. There is no risk of further damage. If it's criminal damage...i.e she throws a brick through your window as she's leaving call the police.

I would be checking the room now and getting any potential damage fixed now or telling her to leave immediately. Keep any money of hers.

tiggerbodhi

A Weeks Notice?? bags packed in the front garden, locks changed and a "thank you and goodnight" letter stapled to them offering a mutually agreeable time to collect the rest of her belongings.


IMHO you need to man up and stop being taken for a mug.

G_M

As others have said, giver her notice.

'Reasonable' notice. Two weeks? Less if the atmosphere in your home (yes, YOUR home) is unpleasant.

And charge for the bills.

kwallace

Hi all. Just an update. I gave her the letter stating the 9th. She banged on my bedroom door to speak to me and was very angry and rude (bordering on verbally abusive). I did not react to her. Will see what happens now. Thank you all for your help!

G_M

If she gets aggressive/abusive, then it is 'reasonable' to shorten the notice.

Get a (sorry for sexism...) beefy male frind round for support overnight and give her overnight. Tell her to leave tomorrow.

Then change the locks.

If the abuse is genuinely threatening (ie you are scared) or there is atual violence, do not be afraid to call the police.

Remember, the legal definition of assault is

Common assault is a summary offence. Assault and battery have no statutory definition. The definition and all elements of the offence of assault are set out in case law. The punishment for assault (maximum 6 months imprisonment) is set out in statute under s.39 Criminal Justice Act 1988.

The House of Lords set the definition of assault as:

• "an assault is committed where the defendant intentionally or recklessly causes the victim to apprehend immediate unlawful personal violence."

Note 'apprehend'. No actual violence is required.