Concerned about partner's gambling and debts

Haggisman123

Hi, and good morning to everyone

Just posting because I have a few questions about my concerns, and any potential implications for me based on my partner's debts/finances.

As a bit of back story:

A couple of months ago, my partner "found" some lottery scratchcards. I say "found" because in all honesty, I have no idea whether she really found them, or bought them and lied to me about it.

She "won" £6, and used that to buy some more. Since then she's been (in my opinion) addicted to online gambling.

The week after she "found" them, she spent £60 on the lottery website instant wins. She broke down and told me, and closed her account. She then signed up to every bingo site in existence "for the signup bonuses", I found out about this a month later when I was sorting some ebay problems out for her, and noticed an email from paypal about a failed transaction - after a bit of snooping (which I know I shouldn't have done, but I'm glad I did ) I realised she had spent ~£500 over 2 weeks, "won" about £200, and was -£100 on her paypal account - she also had a letter from the bank about being overdrawn, although I have no idea how much by.

Her mum bailed her out at this point, and I got her to close the majority of her accounts, and left one open with a £20/week limit (which is her weekly income).

We've just gotten back from holiday, at the start of the week, she had £280 from her "winnings" (or the bank of mum...) we spent about £150 of that, and apparently she has £40 left, so, I reckon she's been gambling it again...

I'm solely responsible for the household finances, mortgage, all bills, shopping money, etc. all comes from my wages, so I've essentially written off her £20/week, and so I'm in 2 minds about this:

a) It's her money, we don't "need" it, so just leave her to it.
b) She shouldn't be wasting her money like that, and with the fact she's gone behind my back several times about it already, I don't know if she's only spending that £20/week, or if she's running up who knows what debts?

Which brings me onto my other point:

She has debts from before we got together, a phone bill, a sky bill, a car loan which she took out for her sister, totalling about £5k

She did have a council tax bill for £900 :eek: but that got paid off after a bailiff turned up...

Now, considering my point above, that I pay for everything and she doesn't contribute at all financially, can me or my possessions be held in any way liable for any of her debts? We live in a house which is mortgaged solely in my name, we've been living there for just over a year now, and living together for 3 years.

She went to the CAB a few months ago to get some help in sorting her debts out, and the advisor we spoke to reckoned our total household income (i.e. mine) would be used to calculate how much she should repay. This would have included me having to ignore some of my obligations - for example stop repaying a loan from a family member as it would be seen as preferential treatment. This didn't seem right to me, as her loans were nothing to do with me, but obviously I'm not a legal financial professional.

My main question I guess is, if she gets into further debt, and people start knocking on the door, can they have any claim over my things or the house?

I realise the sensible solution would be to kick her out, but we have a 2 year old, so not really an option!

FireWyrm

Haggisman123 wrote: »

I have no idea whether she really found them, or bought them and lied to me about it.

If this is the issue, and I dont usually comment on gambling issues as I consider them to be largely self inflicted injuries, it isnt going to get any better.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

She "won" £6, and used that to buy some more. Since then she's been (in my opinion) addicted to online gambling.

Generally how it starts.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

a) It's her money, we don't "need" it, so just leave her to it.

If that was the end of it, her £20 a week would be neither here nor there, but she is (from what you have said) beginning to access credit in order to service her addiction. This (solely in my opinion) is clear disloyalty to the 'family' and doesnt bode well for the future.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

Now, considering my point above, that I pay for everything and she doesn't contribute at all financially, can me or my possessions be held in any way liable for any of her debts?

Not if you can prove that those items are yours. Unfortunately, it gets a little grey around this. The balance of probability is that a TV belongs to both of you and therefore, is also 'hers' unless you can prove otherwise. In reality, civil debts are not enforced via Bailiff or anyone who actually has the legal right to enter the property. It is only government debts where that happens - like Council Tax, so you were wise to pay this off immediately. If she no longer contributes to the household finances, short of taking out a secret mortgage, all her debts will by definition be civil. She can get slapped with a CCJ, but that is about the worst that can happen and it shouldnt affect you unless you have a joint financial arrangement like a joint bank account for instance.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

We live in a house which is mortgaged solely in my name,

You would be wise to keep it at that status until and unless you can get her addiction under control.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

She went to the CAB a few months ago to get some help in sorting her debts out, and the advisor we spoke to reckoned our total household income (i.e. mine) would be used to calculate how much she should repay.

Unless you disavow it. The debt isnt yours, you cannot be compelled to pay unless you have a legal formal arrangement.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

This would have included me having to ignore some of my obligations - for example stop repaying a loan from a family member as it would be seen as preferential treatment.

The advisor clearly misunderstood the situation. You are perfectly entitled to service your debts as you see fit and leave her to sort out hers, but I would take steps to ensure that you have no actual legal ties to this person.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

This didn't seem right to me, as her loans were nothing to do with me, but obviously I'm not a legal financial professional.

Neither are they

Haggisman123 wrote: »

My main question I guess is, if she gets into further debt, and people start knocking on the door, can they have any claim over my things or the house?

Things, perhaps, house, not a chance. You'll be in for some hassle though.

Haggisman123 wrote: »

I realise the sensible solution would be to kick her out, but we have a 2 year old, so not really an option!

Uh oh! Once you start thinking like that, it is over. You have obviously thought about it and you clearly see this as an option but for the child involved. You have to ask yourself whether this relationship is worth saving, for all the hardship the child will be put through if you do not repair it. The child is two, not old enough to really be affected by any material change in housing arrangements. What happens in 5 years when you can no longer tolerate the situation or you have been unable to change her?

Haggisman123

FireWyrm wrote: »

She can get slapped with a CCJ, but that is about the worst that can happen and it shouldnt affect you unless you have a joint financial arrangement like a joint bank account for instance.
[...]
The advisor clearly misunderstood the situation. You are perfectly entitled to service your debts as you see fit and leave her to sort out hers, but I would take steps to ensure that you have no actual legal ties to this person.

We have no financial or legal links other than our child, and the fact we've been living together for 3 years, so sounds like I'm safe in that regard other than the few bits & pieces that I don't have card receipts for (would receipts be sufficient if they show it was paid for by my card?).

The car is in my name, paid for by me (with a receipt to show this), and she doesn't even drive.

FireWyrm wrote: »

Uh oh! Once you start thinking like that, it is over. You have obviously thought about it and you clearly see this as an option but for the child involved. You have to ask yourself whether this relationship is worth saving, for all the hardship the child will be put through if you do not repair it. The child is two, not old enough to really be affected by any material change in housing arrangements. What happens in 5 years when you can no longer tolerate the situation or you have been unable to change her?

In all honesty, the relationship would be over already if it wasn't for the child.

There are unfortunately, several problems with splitting up:

• Being male, I'm clearly a bad parent, and so would struggle to gain custody.
• I would feel like the biggest **** in the world if I did gain custody and "took her baby away"
• She can't afford agency fees/deposit/first months rent, and due to her poor history can't borrow it - she would probably struggle to get accepted anyway, meaning...
• ... she would want me to be a guarantor (we've discussed this before ) I told her it's not going to happen - obviously meaning I'm the bad guy and don't care about our son...
• If we split up, she'd move back to where she grew up - 120 miles away, meaning I'd get to see my son a couple of times a month at most.

I've been stung financially by an ex before, leaving me having to declare bankruptcy, so I've been careful not get into any joint finances, and always made sure I haven't had to rely on her income at all. I'm just getting to the point where my credit rating is back to normal, and have no debts other than student loan, and the aforementioned family loan which was for the house deposit, unfortunately she's using this as an excuse that I'm treating her like my ex, and refuses to accept that the problem is her

pmlindyloo

Really there are two separate issues here - your relationship with your partner and your finances.

I can totally understand how you do not wish to be 'stung' again but am wondering whether your previous experiences are perhaps clouding your judgement a little.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood but I take it that your partner does not work, you deal with all the finances and give your partner £20 a week? Is this correct?

Looking at it from a different angle do you think that it is possible that your partner is using these sites/scratch cards because she feels she needs more money to spend on herself - hair/beauty products/new clothes and the like?

Personally if my partner was doling out £20 a week for me I would be somewhat 'pis*ed off@/controlled etc etc.

Could this be the case?

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

If this is the set up then you need to have a proper discussion about finances. People who are 'looked after' financially and are never included in making financial decisions do not have a chance to learn how to deal with things.

Could she get a job? At the weekends/evenings? She needs to have some sort of feeling of self worth rather than being given pocket money because she is a naughty girl.

Please ignore if this isn't the scenario you are describing.

Haggisman123

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Really there are two separate issues here - your relationship with your partner and your finances.

I can totally understand how you do not wish to be 'stung' again but am wondering whether your previous experiences are perhaps clouding your judgement a little.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood but I take it that your partner does not work, you deal with all the finances and give your partner £20 a week? Is this correct?

The £20/week is child benefit, and all we can really spare (it's more than I have to spend on myself after everything else is paid for!)

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Looking at it from a different angle do you think that it is possible that your partner is using these sites/scratch cards because she feels she needs more money to spend on herself - hair/beauty products/new clothes and the like?

If she needs anything like that, all she needs to do is ask, and if we can afford it, she gets it/the money for it.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Personally if my partner was doling out £20 a week for me I would be somewhat 'pis*ed off@/controlled etc etc.

Could this be the case?

I can understand that feeling - however unfortunately we are living on a tight budget (see reasons below...), which she refuses to accept, she thinks a bottle of wine or a takeaway is more important than making sure the electric bill gets paid (hence her debts from the past!).

I've tried giving her more control over our finances - up until a couple of months ago we were getting working tax credits, which went into her account; she was in charge of the monthly shopping.

Unfortunately, she instead decided to spend it on bingo, leaving me having to make £70 stretch to 2 weeks worth of food, nappies, etc for 2 adults, a toddler and 2 cats...

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

If this is the set up then you need to have a proper discussion about finances. People who are 'looked after' financially and are never included in making financial decisions do not have a chance to learn how to deal with things.

I don't think you're misunderstanding as such, but I feel it would be irresponsible of me to allow something like that to happen again.

Ultimately she has nothing to lose if we get thousands in debt, I do.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Could she get a job? At the weekends/evenings? She needs to have some sort of feeling of self worth rather than being given pocket money because she is a naughty girl.

Please ignore if this isn't the scenario you are describing.

If only. She's had 5-6 jobs in the last 2 years. She always leaves after a month or 2 because of getting bullied/not fitting in/doesn't like the manager/etc.

I've always been supportive of her working and done whatever I can to help, I used to get home from work and drive her an hour to get to work, an hour home, then 4 hours later the same to pick her up again, getting to bed at 1am and getting up again at 6 to go work myself.

The reason for such a tigh budget? conveniently, the jobs always seem to last just long enough for her to get something she wants... I got her a phone contract in my name (due to her bad credit), which she was going to pay me for, she quit her job after a month, I gave/lent her my £1000 bonus on last year so she could go on holiday with her sister and get some nice clothes for while she was away - she said she would pay me some back (needed for car repairs) but decided not to bother going back to work after she got back, leaving me having to borrow from work to get the car sorted. We got a new sofa on finance about 4 months ago, as she was working. Surprise, surprise, she quit her job a couple of weeks later.

I'm currently paying out ~£250/month on financial commitments which were made based on her working. Thankfully I made sure I could cover them all on my income alone, but for some reason I'm now the bad guy when she asks for something and I say no!

Maybe I am being unreasonable, but other than getting a second evening/weekend job myself and doing 16 hour days, I can't realistically give her any more.

FireWyrm

To be frank, this relationship sounds like it is dead in the water. You are doing all you can to keep your heads above water and it is being sabotaged at every turn by irresponsibility and childishness. I hate to say it, but you dont sound like you are suited to each other. That's not to say that this type of arrangement cannot work, only that some radical changes need to happen for it to function properly. I know, I've been there. My spouse once withdrew £20 from the cashpoint via a credit card to 'see if it would work' (I kid you not). I was mad as hell because it cost us many dozens of pounds in compound interest since the card could not be settled straight away to clear the stupidity. I will admit that I was somewhat irresponsible in my youth, but I never spent money on frivolities as such. Our debts were accrued through mis-management and rash overspending elsewhere leaving us short on the necessities but I have learned my lesson and so has the spouse. We made a pact. I would handle the finances, entirely and all the responsibility that goes with that, and he would have no access to any other funding stream. It is how it works, it is not up for negotiation.

StressedSteph

Oh my heavens Haggisman. She sounds terribly selfish.


I am abit unsure of how to advise or help. My gut instinct is to tell you to get out now before she sinks you.


There is no trust in this relationship, she is just behaving like a leech.


I totally understand you situation with your 2 year old. But it seems unless you want to live a life of 2nd guessing her and financial stress, leaving her is your only option.
There is no point trying to change her, as people only change if they want to, and even then it is very hard. she looks like she is just after the easy life and your the mug who is providing it.


As the previous posters have said, as long as you do not allow baliffs any entry to your home, then they cannot take your possession or home as on paper she does not have anything to her name. May be worth having a free half hour with a solicitor or CAB just to make sure but I am pretty sure there is no "Common Law Wife" benefits anymore like there used to be.


I personally would not pay her debts for her, and redirect any post or phone calls regarding the debt to her.


She needs to grow up and realise that her "Daddy Substitute" is not going to continually bail her out. She will have not compunction to change if you do.


I would personally make her life as difficult as you can, explaining to her that she can't have "this or that" because she has to pay off her debts and live frugally. Ideally pay off her debts from her own income!!.


Sorry you're in this Haggisman. xx

HappyMJ

I have a gambling addicted partner and if I allowed my partner to have full access to the finances...bank accounts, credit cards..etc I can guarantee I will be in serious debt myself. It's not going to happen.

Doling out £20 a week although it sounds small might just be all that can be permitted in the budget. I don't give my partner anything at all only because it would be wasted on gambling. I do not attempt to stop her but she will go to bingo 3 or 4 times a week using her child maintenance, child benefit and child tax credits. I pay all the bills for our family and she gives me (the household account) £100 per week to pay those bills with. That was hard enough to get her to agree to and still causes a lot of friction despite the child not even being mine and her income being 3 times what mine is.

I've saved money in her name by redirecting withdrawals from gambling sites which she has no idea about and despite me telling her about she now has saved £4,000. If that was in her bank account it would be gone. A £1,000 tax refund received a month ago has already gone...on bingo.

She is on a DMP paying £200 a month towards it and it has many years to run. I cannot financially associate myself with her which is not my idea of a relationship where everything is shared equally.

Haggisman123

Thanks for the supportive posts

FireWyrm wrote: »

To be frank, this relationship sounds like it is dead in the water. You are doing all you can to keep your heads above water and it is being sabotaged at every turn by irresponsibility and childishness. I hate to say it, but you dont sound like you are suited to each other. That's not to say that this type of arrangement cannot work, only that some radical changes need to happen for it to function properly. I know, I've been there.

In all honesty, I think it's been dead for a while - as I mentioned if it weren't for our son, I think we would have split up already, but even with him, I can't keep putting up with the way she is being.

FireWyrm wrote: »

We made a pact. I would handle the finances, entirely and all the responsibility that goes with that, and he would have no access to any other funding stream. It is how it works, it is not up for negotiation.

Unfortunately she's not really one for negotiation. Any criticism is met with aggression and hostility, which makes trying to have an adult discussion with her extremely difficult!

StressedSteph wrote: »

Oh my heavens Haggisman. She sounds terribly selfish.

I am abit unsure of how to advise or help. My gut instinct is to tell you to get out now before she sinks you.

I totally understand you situation with your 2 year old. But it seems unless you want to live a life of 2nd guessing her and financial stress, leaving her is your only option.
There is no point trying to change her, as people only change if they want to, and even then it is very hard. she looks like she is just after the easy life and your the mug who is providing it.

My concern with splitting up is her gaining custody of our son, and him being in a poor environment - she's generally a very good mother, but does have a very negative outlook on life, along with the financial issues.

Much as I hate to admit it, I don't know if I could trust her to look after him properly without me being there, and I can see myself constantly having to bail her out for his sake...

StressedSteph wrote: »

I would personally make her life as difficult as you can, explaining to her that she can't have "this or that" because she has to pay off her debts and live frugally. Ideally pay off her debts from her own income!!.


Sorry you're in this Haggisman. xx

I've already explained that to her. Her £20/week is hers, if she wants clothes, she'll have to save for a month, if she wants a bottle of wine or a takeaway, then I wont stop her, if she wants to spend it all in an hour of gambling, then that's up to her, apparently it's not good enough.

I even put that £20/week into context for her and showed her it was £1k/year... she still doesn't see the bigger picture

I'm supposed to be getting another bonus in a month or so.

I'm almost at the point where I'd enjoy buying myself something nice to wave it in her face and show her what she could have if she wasn't just throwing it all away.

Unfortunately she seems to have fallen into 2 of the worst gamblers traps...

She thinks she has a "system"

She'll get a biggish win every couple of weeks, and think she's making money, ignoring the fact she's spent double that the few weeks before...

HappyMJ wrote: »

I have a gambling addicted partner and if I allowed my partner to have full access to the finances...bank accounts, credit cards..etc I can guarantee I will be in serious debt myself. It's not going to happen.

Doling out £20 a week although it sounds small might just be all that can be permitted in the budget.

It is, and as I've explained to her, it's more "disposable" income than I have for myself...

HappyMJ wrote: »

I cannot financially associate myself with her which is not my idea of a relationship where everything is shared equally.

Yup... it's not ideal!

RAS

Hi

Are you in England, Wales, Scotland or NI?

I really think you need to go and see a solicitor NOW about whether she would be able to claim any beneficial interest in the house.

Haggisman123

RAS wrote: »

Hi

Are you in England, Wales, Scotland or NI?

I really think you need to go and see a solicitor NOW about whether she would be able to claim any beneficial interest in the house.

I'm in England.

She signed a waiver stating she would have no interest in the deposit which was provided as a gift by a family member. Although obviously this would have no bearing on any equity gained since I started paying the mortgage.