What can I do - Company harassing me / making false claims about what I sell..

JumpingFrog

Hi everyone,

I am an eBay seller, recently I managed to source an item from Portugal that retails there for 35% less than it does in the UK.

So me using my entrepreneurial spirit bought loads from a retail store (with a discount of course) I speak Portuguese as well.

I then started selling the item on eBay and was selling on average 9 of these items a day.

After a few days the listing was removed by eBay and I had a VERO Notice. ( Counterfeit product warning)

So I contacted the company who made the complaint - they responded that
a) I do not have a trade account with them.
b) they are the only permitted distributors of the item in the UK.
C) I am selling there item below the allowed price

I then contacted them assuring them that the product is genuine and that I sourced it from Europe and that I have receipts of purchase from a well known company to prove it.

There reply:
We want to know who is supplying you and you must provide us with this information failure to do so will lead to our solicitors contacting you.
We have the distribution rights for the UK and if you try to sell our product again we will take legal action.

Anyway I ignored this and started selling again on eBay and yep after 4 days again the listing was removed with another VERO warning. - Counterfeit product (same company made the complaint)

I then contacted eBay and told them that i am being harassed and wrongly penalised that I was willing to provide eBay with receipts of purchase but not provide that company with these details.
I explained that I was buying these items from a Retail store to sell on.

eBay just said that because the company in question owns the intellectual property rights if they say it's a fake then it is.
I explained that when the company complains to eBay that they are committing perjury by lying on the form and are committing an offence. (they have to swear that the information they give is correct and accurate when they fill out the VERO form).

Where do I stand ?
Can I still sell these items ? The return is more than worth while .... I just can not afford for my account to be suspended. Especially over false claims.

soolin

You will need to wait until someone with more knowledge about these issues logs in, my own knowledge is basic.

However, your account is already in danger, especially if it is new as those two warnings and removal of items count as serious breaches. You could be suspended for good with just one more warning.

As for VERO, the wording is appalling, we are aware of that. They use the term 'fake' when they actually mean you just don't have the right to sell the items. SOme companies do protect their stock and only allow authorised sellers to sell, Tiffany is a notable example . If someone has the UK rights to sell then you can't win this , if eBay have allowed them to claim rights then eBay will continue to pull your items.

If you intend to fight this then you would probably need a specialist lawyer and that could cost you an arm and a leg.

RFW

There was a big issue around this a few years ago when Asda and a few others were buying up stock in eastern Europe to sell here. The big publicity surrounded Levi 501s being sold at below the UK market trade price. It was largely a publicity stunt (in my opinion) but there was a lot of talk about the so-called "grey market" and the legality of it.

As far as the OP and my (also limited) knowledge is that selling one or two no one would be bothered, selling more than that is a problem.

As the items are from within the European Union there could be a better case. Personally I'd look at it that I wouldn't be allowed to continue to sell the products if I don't co operate fully so would have nothing to lose in doing so. Unless you have a good solicitor friend or don't mind throwing a lot of money at it.

F&L

Whatever you do don't relist this product until you've resolved the matter. If another Company has the sole UK distribution rights then they'll keep reporting you if you're not buying the stock from them. Their customers are probably complaining to the distributor asking how you're managing to sell them so cheap as their sales will have fallen. Unless you can reach an agreement to sell this item with the distributor or brand owner I'd personally stop selling it.

I had a similar situation a few years ago when the distributor offered me a trade account but the unit cost was way higher than the price I'd paid from another source. I got rid of my remaining stock by listing them one at a time on a different account and I didn't get reported once. I did though leave it several days between each listing and it took several months.

mrcol1000

I thought under the Vero programme the company who held the rights to the product could ask Ebay to remove any listings regardless of if they were genuine or not? They control the selling of them and can stop anyone selling on Ebay if they wish. This is why I have always turned down opportunities to buy certain genuine brands cheaply.

mrs_sparrow

VERO is when another company owns the intellectual rights to a brand and they do not want it sold anywhere than they say by who they say. They can rightly say they are fake if they have not been supplied by them. You can try Amazon or Facebook to get rid of the ones you have I guess.

I am having an issue like this at the moment, with two of the brands I sell there is another Chinese company making the same styles, using the brands photographic images but cutting the logo out to make it look like it is there product. Joe Public would not realise what they are buying but I know, they are even using the models from other high street stores advertising to sell these fakes. Because I know the brand, they are not even made in China, they are just cheap fakes but they are being sold at 1/4 of the cost as the legitimate items. I spend a day reporting them to all the different brands and finding out where else they had them (Amazon, Ali Express *massive give away* and eBay).

What it does is make us authorised retailers look like we are overcharging and it devalues the brand so people do not want to pay the RRP - there are strict rules around that and I am not allowed to buy their current ranges and sell for less than RRP else I will lose my account.

Currently, one of that sellers ebay shops has had all of the stock removed, the lawyers are working on getting the others removed as each country has a different set of legal rules depending on where it is listed. VERO would mean that none of us can sell on eBay either.

You will need legal representation to fight being able to sell them and prove they are genuine I am afraid but with the VERO rights there is no way you will get away with listing anymore on eBay. eBay will not be in the slightest bit interested and the distributor will no doubt have a search running so they are updated each time you, or someone else, lists one and they will continue to report you for breaching it. Eventually you will just be kicked off eBay.

It is harsh but this is why you should never buy something like this in bulk until you know whether you can actually legally sell it. You might do well to source out a page on Facebook that has some sort of brand fan page and sell them to those people.

PasturesNew

The bottom line is: no matter how genuine the product is, and you have receipts for this, you have set yourself up as a business selling this product in the UK, which is against the company's rules. Ergo, you are a High Seas Pirate of some sort.

Imagine if the boot were on the other foot. Imagine if you'd sold your house and invested £200k to buy the rights to UK distribution from a company, then found somebody else who brought things in from abroad, at a cheaper price, and was undercutting you.

You call it entrepreneurial, but part of the responsibility of being an entrepreneur is to understand what you are buying and all legal aspects of buying/selling/distributing that product within the country you intend to sell it in and being sourced from the country where you bought it. Being an entrepreneur is more than spotting a nifty arbitrage and acting on it.

Yes, you did the right thing by spotting the opportunity. What you then didn't do is the due diligence in setting yourself up as a retailer of that product. Companies/brands spend millions protecting their name and deciding/authorising businesses to use their name and sell their product, or not. The legal UK distributor might have spent 2 solid years putting their deal with the company together - and had to prove all manner of business credentials and produce paperwork such as insurances, bank statements, credit reports, trade references etc.

JumpingFrog

I didn't mention that the UK distributor is a subsidiary of the actual Manufacture. This is the same in every other country ... US, France, Spain, Germany, Italy .... they have a complete monopoly on this item

Thank you everyone for your advice .... the main issue was the fact that I was undercutting them.

A friend of mine who works for the crown prosecution service here in London has asked around his office for advice and the general consensus is that as long at the Items were purchased in Europe and are Genuine (which they are) then I am not actually doing anything wrong especially when Joe Public can buy the product direct from Portugal (including postage) for almost the same price that I am selling it for.

With all your information and advice I think I will do the following
1) Sell one at a time on eBay with my personal account as "unwanted gift"
2) Continue to sell on Facebook
3) Sell on other forums
4) Place adds in Classifieds such as gumtree and Loot

shaun_from_Africa

JumpingFrog wrote: »

With all your information and advice I think I will do the following
1) Sell one at a time on eBay with my personal account as "unwanted gift"

Not a good idea.
As you are already on the radar for selling these items, by doing as you suggest you risk:
Having your ebay personal account closed,
Haing your ebay business account closed,
Being reported to Trading Standards for illegally passing yourself off as a private seller instead of a business.

I would forget about trying to sell them on ebay and stick to Facebook, gumtree and clasified adverts.

mrcol1000

You could always sell them off in bulk at auction and let it be someone elses problem.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The VeRO program is for removing fake goods, not controlling the market, as the goods were purchased within the EU it is my understanding this company can not prohibit you from selling the goods (all they can do to stop it is not supply who ever supplied you).

The problem you have is eBay will just keep removing the items and won't get involved so you'd need to take legal action against the company falsely removing the items.

Probably not worth it but I would report the company's actions to which ever gov dept has replaced the OFT.