Alcoholic father - help/advice!

Jezmundo

Hello

First post so here goes.

My dad is an alcoholic and has been for most of my life. He was kicked out by my mum 20 years ago for drinking and continued until he nearly died. very expensive therapy and a lot of pain emotionally from me and my brother and sister followed that led to ten years or so of sobriety. Then the bombshell about 4years ago that he was drinking again but it was for social reasons! We had by this time young families of our own and couldnt /wouldn't open them up to the inevitable slide that would follow. His partner was supportive of him drinking and said it wasn't a problem. We tried to reason with him but he would argue that he was into his seventies and wanted to enjoy his life! He has shown no interest/desire in getting in contact even to ask about his grandchildren etc

So now to today and the partner calls to say he has been taken to hospital due to alcohol and he is not welcome back. Essentially washing her hands of what she has contributed.

Anyway, that's enough venting!

He has recently sold his house and we have seen from statements collected from the partner today that he has about £250k give or take in cash. From previous experience he will fritter this away like he has before. We, as his children, are now left to try and pick up the pieces of his disaster of a life once more.

Can anyone give any suggestions/advice about whether we can take control of his money to then provide him with a place to live and control his income etc so that he doesn't end up on the street in 5 years time with nothing.

Can we use a power of attorney. Can we set up a trust with him as beneficiary and me, my brother and sister as trustees? Is there anything else anyone knows of that could be used in this situation.

The alcoholism side of things is a different matter which will be addressed hopefully once again.

Thanks in hope

Annisele

Jezmundo wrote: »

We, as his children, are now left to try and pick up the pieces of his disaster of a life once more.

Well, actually, you don't have to. I can see why you want to, but nobody can make you.

Can anyone give any suggestions/advice about whether we can take control of his money to then provide him with a place to live and control his income etc so that he doesn't end up on the street in 5 years time with nothing.

Generally, no. If he has mental capacity to make his own financial decisions, then he can - no matter how unwise those decisions might be.

If he's prepared to appoint you as his attorney, or if he's prepared to set up a trust with you as trustees, then that's fine - but he'd need to be willing to do it. He could revoke your appointment as attorney at any time, and if you set up a trust with him as the sole beneficiary then I think (but am not certain) that he could unwind the trust without too much difficulty.

If he doesn't have mental capacity to make his own decisions, then you could apply to the Court of Protection to be appointed his deputy.

Do you know what he wants to do? Is it likely that he's planning to spend the £250k on a house?

Jezmundo

Thanks Annisele

We've got the ball rolling and a solicitor has drawn up papers for him to give us POA. Have discussed this with him and seems like he will consent.

In terms of how to hold this money is the trust the best option in terms of tax etc and not wanting the money in our names as it is there for his benefit? Is there any other financial vehicle to hold this money at arms length?
We just want control over it for his future

PeacefulWaters

Jezmundo wrote: »

We just want control over it for his future

And yours?

A serious question. At what rate will you allow him to spend his own money?

A chat with an IFA is probably a good idea to establish his income needs and how best to achieve these.

CRANKY40

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

And yours?

A serious question. At what rate will you allow him to spend his own money?

A chat with an IFA is probably a good idea to establish his income needs and how best to achieve these.

If I had to hazard a guess at a rate that will mean his children can pay rent and bills for him and not have him living with them while he drinks himself daft.

Jezmundo

No. Couldn't care less about the money PeacefulWaters. Just want him at arms length from my family. Control will allow this to happen. He has got through several hundred thousand pounds in the last few years by selling inherited properties and drinking the proceeds. He may carry on drinking thats his choice, whether he wants contact with his children and grandchildren again will largely depend on that decision.

Have contacted an IFA, waiting to hear back.

As for the rate I dont know - bills paid for and an allowance? Not sure.

TBagpuss

If he wants you to deal with his money for him, then he can give you a power of attorney.

It might be possible to set up a trust as a discretionary trust with him and you (or your children) as beneficiaries. If he is the sole beneficiary of a trust then he can end it at any time, if however there are multiple beneficiaries and the trustees have discretion as to how to split the money then he could not force it to be wound up (and if it was done with the grandchildren, as minors, as the other benefitciaries, it becomes more difficult agian to end the trust.

Obviously the down side sis that he would be giving up control of his finances and would have to put a lot of trust in the trustees - it might be sensible to consider a professional trustee such as a solicitor to cover your own backs against any nasty allegations from him if he changes his mind in the future.
A solicitor can also advise on drawing up a trust and can ensure that it is appropriately flexible - e.g. prioritising Dad's needs, ability to allow him to move house, seek professional treatment etc, and to increase his income as appropriate. Under no circumstances try to draft it yourself, it is a complex area.

Obviously you cannot do any of this unless you dad is prepared to do it - if not, then it my be that he does fritter away his capital and if that is the case, you do not have an obligation to pick up the pieces afterwards.

A slightly simpler option than a full trust might be to see whether he would be agreeable to buying a house and having it in the joint names of himself, and you and his other children. That would mean that he could not sell or mortgage the property without your cooperation, limiting the extent to which he could drink himself out of a home.

There would potentially be issues with Capital Gains Tax or IHT once he died, and with deprivation of assets if he had to go into a care home, but that may not be a major issue for you as your priority is to protect him from himself, rather than to maximise your possible inheritance.

The first step however would be to see whether he wants your help to put these sorts of practical protections in place.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Serious question - are you prepared for screaming phone calls in the middle of the night, demanding more money because he's drunk his allowance in the first three days?

Or being accused of stealing his money? Dealing with a huge amount of administrative hassle and responsibility, only to get it in the neck from him and any new drinking buddies he acquires due to having a home and income?


It's not as simple as pay the bills and everything will be fine. Because he'll know where to go to get 'bailed out'/protected from the consequences of his behaviour - the same way he did with his last partner until she had enough of it.

It's his problem to find somewhere to live, to pay bills and feed himself. Not yours. And if that means he drinks all his money and ends up in a mouldy bedsit with a can of Tennants to last him five days, that's his lookout.



If it's actually partly wanting to protect some inheritance (which I cannot and will not condemn you for - its perfectly reasonable to want to have something good from a person who hasn't been that good to you), fair enough - but that comes with the possibility of being blamed and accused of all sorts, plus being expected to sort his life out - which I don't think you want or need.

GobbledyGook

Does your father want your help? If he doesn't then there's nothing you can do.

If he says he does now and then goes back to the drink have you all seriously thought through the consequences?

What happens if he spends the allowance you give him on drink and has no food, so therefore needs more money?

Are you all prepared to basically parent your father for the next x amount of years? Shopping for him, paying every bill (because he's not going to pay council tax/tv license rather than buying drink) and dealing with every single drunken phone call from him?

Controlling his finances isn't going to put him at arms length. It's going to bring at least one of you into frequent contact with him because he will drink all of the allowance you give him and you won't, especially if you take on a legal role, be able to sit there and watch him starve.

Seriously, you all need to think very, very carefully about this. If it's not about the money then how are you all going to be better off - leaving him to do whatever it is he is going to do with his life or getting involved, think very carefull because that may not be something he thinks about at all.