Probate question - no response from solicitors

Cool_customer

We are hopefully purchasing a property and were fairly close to exchange when very sadly our vendor passed away. His family members had been organising the sale as he was not well.

The same conveyancing firm (linked to estate agents) have been acting for both parties in the sale (different individuals on each case) however the estate agent has informed us that probate is being dealt with by a different solicitor.

Unfortunately neither the estate agent or the conveyancers have been able to get a response from the solicitors looking after probate (which I understand they were instructed on three weeks ago). I believe the vendor's conveyancer has contacted them to try and find out who will be on the grant so that they can amend the contracts and get the ball rolling on that end but to no avail.

I know the solicitors are not legally obliged to speak to either the estate agent or conveyancers but I just wondered if this is usual? We know there are no guarantees but only want to know if the case looks straightforward and how long they anticipate it taking, due to deadlines with our mortage offer, moving etc.

Thanks for any thoughts

camptownraces

Well, your vendor is now the estate of the deceased owner.

This estate is being handled by solicitors, you say. So whoever is acting for you (not another solicitor, by the sound of it) should be in touch with those solicitors. There are many steps to go through before a sale can be achieved.

It seems a bit dodgy to have the same conveyancing firm acting for both vendor and purchaser. However, the "solicitors" are acting for the deceased person's estate.

Is there a will, or was the deceased intestate?

You may have to be quite patient with this one.

Flat_Eric

My understanding from your post is that the same law firm (albeit different people) are acting for the Vendor (now deceased) and you as Buyer. Can you confirm?

If your Vendor has made a Will, then this will have appointed Executors and these are the people who will now be responsible for selling the property and should be named on the Contract. Achieving probate/dealing with someone's estate is not an overnight process and of course if no Will was left then this will only complicate things.

It is correct that a different department/solicitor will handle the probate side of things. Its a specialist area of law.

If you are all being represented by the same law firm then it seems strange that the probate solicitor isn't in touch with the Seller's Solicitor as I suspect the people who were helping the Vendor are also in touch with the probate solicitor but of course its a difficult time for them at the moment and there are lots of things to be attended to so it is probably very much a waiting game for you.

Cool_customer

Thank you for your replies

One law firm (conveyancers rather than solicitors) was acting for both ourselves and the vendor in the sale before he sadly passed away (different individuals handling the case, which I understand is above aboard). The vendor's family were handling the sale and I believe the same family members are now the executors and as they still wish to proceed with the sale the conveyancers are trying to get the details of who will be on the grant to amend contracts in the meantime.

A different solicitors firm altogether have been instructed by the family to undertake probate - it's this firm that neither the estate agent or conveyancers can get any response from. All we want to know is an idea of how straightforward the case is etc. Getting anxious about our mortgage offer as its already been three months since we received it. I believe there is a will but this is one of things we really want to find out. Just not sure why the solicitors handling probate are so reluctant to engage with the estate agents/conveyancing firm.

Thanks again

Flat_Eric

Cool_customer wrote: »

Thank you for your replies

One law firm (conveyancers rather than solicitors) was acting for both ourselves and the vendor in the sale before he sadly passed away (different individuals handling the case, which I understand is above aboard). The vendor's family were handling the sale and I believe the same family members are now the executors and as they still wish to proceed with the sale the conveyancers are trying to get the details of who will be on the grant to amend contracts in the meantime.

A different solicitors firm altogether have been instructed by the family to undertake probate - it's this firm that neither the estate agent or conveyancers can get any response from. All we want to know is an idea of how straightforward the case is etc. Getting anxious about our mortgage offer as its already been three months since we received it. I believe there is a will but this is one of things we really want to find out. Just not sure why the solicitors handling probate are so reluctant to engage with the estate agents/conveyancing firm.

Thanks again

First off the same firm can act for both Buyer and Seller. Different people within the firm of course and there are strict rules the firm must follow/adhere to so a lot of firms will decline to act for both parties (the rules are stricter than they used to be).

It makes sense there is a separate firm involved with the probate and I don't imagine they are deliberately being unhelpful - it could be that they are presently without instructions. Client care paperwork might have been sent but not returned. They might want money on account which hasn't been received. They might be trying to track down the Will. Its very early days and the family members may still be occupied in the sad aftermath this situation presents. I can understand why the Estate Agent isn't having much luck because the solicitors acting in the probate will be very aware of protecting the client confidentiality but it seems strange the seller's solicitor isn't able to get in touch unless of course as I say they [the probate solicitors] might not have instructions.

I'd suggest asking your solicitor to get in touch with your mortgage lender to explain and ask that the expiry date of your mortgage offer be extended.

martindow

Cool_customer wrote: »

A different solicitors firm altogether have been instructed by the family to undertake probate - it's this firm that neither the estate agent or conveyancers can get any response from.

The family, or at least their executors, have to get all the details of the deceased's bank accounts and other financial information to the solicitor so that they can complete the forms. It may be that the solicitor has gone quiet as they are waiting for everything to be given to them. Can you ask the family what stage things are at?

Obtaining probate can take some time if there are complications or delays before the forms are submitted.

Errata

it's this firm that neither the estate agent or conveyancers can get any response from.

If I've understood correctly, the contract with the EA and conveyancers ceased when the owner died which indicates they have no right to a response from the solicitor who is dealing with the estate.
A way forward would be to speak to the executor(s) directly.

eddddy

As others have suggested, the probate solicitors are being instructed by the executors, so only the executors will get responses from those solicitors (unless the executors instruct the solicitors to contact/respond to anyone else).

As an aside, the EA may be a bit exposed here. Their fee usually becomes payable on exchange - which hasn't happened yet.

If the property is sold by the executors as personal representatives of the deceased, the EA should get a fee.

But if the property is transferred to the beneficiaries and then sold - the beneficiaries have no contract with EA so no fee should be payable.

(The contract with the deceased's conveyancer continues. The executors take over responsibility as personal representatives. But the executors may choose to terminate it.)

G_M

The original soliciors acting for the vendor (presumably his family had Power of Attourney if they were selling on his behalf) not have no role.

The vendor no longer owns the property. He is deceased.

The property belongs to the estate, and as such, the probate solicitors act for the (new) vendor.

You could therefore ask the family to instruct the probate solicitor to contact you.

However he is unlikely to do this till the Estate is in order, which may take some time. Till then, there is nothing he can tell you so he won't.

You may wait a month, if you are lucky, and then find he sale progresses again. You may wait 6 months.

Like others, I express concern about

* buyers/sellers sharing same conveyancing firm
* using an estate agents 'preferred' conceyancers

but that is irrelevant here - just for the record.

Cool_customer

Thank you for your really helpful replies. On reflection, I am sure you are right that the solicitors dealing with probate are not being intentionally obstructive but are simply not in a position to provide an update for whatever reason.

Speaking to the family probably would be a way forwards but we only have an address (all correspondence has been through EA) and I am not sure if this is the done thing. Also, we really wouldn't want to trouble the family at the moment as I know they are going through a really sad and difficult time.

I guess we will need to be patient, just hard as we are really struggling with our commute at the moment and live quite far away from each other too so seem to spend most of the time on the train and motorway!

As a side note, we were happy to agree to the same conveyancing firm acting for both as we had originally hoped it would speed the sale up. It is a small property (FTBs) and we are not too concerned about anything in particular (didn't even have a survey as we just wanted to move forwards with it).

Thanks for the help, will try to stop worrying about it constantly.

G_M

I would write to the family, at the property address if that is the only address you have.

Offer condolances

Make clear you understand this is a difficlt time, and you hesitate to trouble them.

Make clear you understand there are inevitably some delays and complications with the sale.

But also make clear you too have lives to get on with and it is reasonable, indeed mutually beneficial, for there to be transparancy on both sides as to to timescales and intentions. So make clear how long you are willing to wait before looking elsewhere, and ask if they believe that it acheivable.

Most people would appreciate the honesty, and understand your predicament, even if there are themselves in mourning.

Alternatively, just start house hunting again.