CP Plus MSA - Popla appeal rejected

bunzee

I will get photos of the signage tomorrow, is there anything specifically I should be getting pictures of or shall I just take photos of everything I can find?

Thanks to all of you for help, I can't deny I'm panicking a bit!

gertysingh

Chris Adamson states in the 2014 Popla Report with regards to gpol:

In the first place, it only amounts to a small percentage of cases that we decide. Secondly, the charge can amount to a pre-estimate of loss. Thirdly, the issue can only occur at all if the charge is by way of damages. Of course, whether the charge amounts to damages or consideration may be an issue that the Assessor has to determine.

...and the Assessor will need help to determine these

All of this will be matters for the Assessor to consider when
arriving at the preliminary decision of what the charge amounts to.
Although apparently the source of some confusion for both parties, the issue of
genuine pre-estimate of loss does not arise where the charge sought is by way of consideration, rather than damages.

...and for Guy's Dad, it later goes on to say:

However, genuine pre-estimate of loss means just that. It is an estimate of the loss which might reasonably be suffered, made before the breach occurred, rather than a calculation of the actual loss suffered made afterwards

bargepole

The assessor has failed to see through the circular argument here.


Operator: You should have paid £12. So now you owe us £100.
Motorist: No I don't
Operator: Well we think you do, but you can appeal to POPLA.
Motorist: Dear POPLA, this is not a GPEOL
Operator: Dear POPLA, we've spent nearly £100 dealing with this appeal
POPLA: OK appeal refused.

Guys_Dad

bargepole wrote: »

The assessor has failed to see through the circular argument here.


Operator: You should have paid £12. So now you owe us £100.
Motorist: No I don't
Operator: Well we think you do, but you can appeal to POPLA.
Motorist: Dear POPLA, this is not a GPEOL
Operator: Dear POPLA, we've spent nearly £100 dealing with this appeal
POPLA: OK appeal refused.

My worry is that this assessor has a track record of seeing through this in the past as the POPLA DECISIONS thread shows if you search "Kapour". So what has changed?

Redx

also worth noting that this popla appeal example here is clearly and woefully out of date now and needs a better and newer example that wins these cases at popla

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63513111#Comment_63513111

M Kapour has been dealing with these for some time so is not new to this

jkdd77

I'd say that only the first four costs listed, totaling £6.46, are real losses, although so too would be the £12 the OP probably should have paid.

Since most invoice recipients don't appeal, and since appealing is meant to be free to the motorist as per public/ BPA policy, I don't see how the costs in dealing with an appeal (which, in any case, are ludicrously inflated) can be reasonable pre-estimate of the losses flowing from the parking.

After all, the supposed 'parking charge' would have been £100 even if the motorist had not 'appealed to POPLA', despite, according to CP Plus's own calcuations, only £6.46 of losses being incurred in the absence of such an appeal (plus the aforementioned £12 charge). Bargepole sums it up nicely.

If the worst comes to the worst, and POPLA don't budge, then the OP should send a letter to CP Plus denying all liability, and then revert to ignoring everything except actual court papers- CP rarely 'do court'.

gertysingh

GD The presentation of the information has changed. CP+ used to simply stick to

...reflects the costs to our clients, both in terms of congestion caused at this site by drivers abusing the parking restrictions and our fees for enforcing these restrictions, while installing and maintaining the necessary equipment to do so

Easy for the assessor to understand what were operational costs.

The game is to blind the assessor with "stuff"

Redx

CP PLUS , april 2014 , Matthew Shaw was the assessor

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4959400

popla decision here #1036 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

bunzee

Thanks all - what's the best way for me to proceed, should I appeal the Popla decision on the basis the costs are not a pre-estimate?

Or, ignore and see if CP Plus do go down the court route?

Or, any other suggestions?

Gemlou

Why do they not list the original cost of obtaining the POPLA code? They are either including fighting a POPLA case or they're not. Blatantly they reached the desired £100 mark and decided that was enough. If it's the case that they aren't allowed to include the cost of taking the appeal to POPLA then at least 3 of their points are invalid.