Help Please - I have read the Newbies stickies

Monkey_Harris

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the info on this forum. I’ve studied all the stickies and searched for and read plenty of posts relevant to my situation.

However, I think it’s time for me to ask for some advice.

My wife and I parked at the Peel Centre, Stockport in February and neither of us noticed any signs saying it was a Pay and Display car park.

My wife bought some items from a stationery shop and I had a coffee in Costa.

Within a couple of weeks we received a PCN. I spoke to a friend of mine about it as I recalled him having a similar PCN from Stockport.

I was told to ignore all correspondence and eventually they would give up.

Clearly they haven’t, and that’s why I’m posting.

The ‘incident’ occurred in Stockport, England, I live in England. It is a private car, registered in my wife’s name in England. Both my wife and I are over 18. The company is Excel Parking.

We didn’t get a windscreen notice. They sent us the PCN giving us the opportunity to appeal or pay £60, which we ignored.

We then received a couple of letters from Newlyn Debt Collection Ltd which we initially ignored, however the last one was headed ‘Final Notice - Court Action’ and said they were returning the file back to Excel Parking Services.

After reading all the Newbies sticky threads, I sent them the “First Appeal” letter from Coupon-mad’s Newbies sticky.

They have sent me a brief response, with no POPLA number or means to appeal.

This is what it says:

#######################

Further to your correspondence received on the 28th June 2014, in connection to the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

The details of this account have been forwarded to our Debt Recovery Company, due to the non receipt of payment within 28 days of the Notice To Keeper being issued.

All enquiries and payments must be made directly to our Debt Recovery Company.

We will not acknowledge or respond to any further correspondence.

Yours sincerely etc

#######################

So I’m not sure what to do now as the last letter from the Debt Recovery Company, dated 18th June 2014, said the file was being passed back to Excel Parking Services, and this letter was dated 4th July.

…and I have no means to go to POPLA at this stage.

Any help at all will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Sean

Redx

nothing you can do if you ignored the original pcn and if you cannot name the driver

should have appealed to excel within 28 days of the pcn being received

arabesque_101

Your car is registered in your wife's name but you didn't say who was driving or whether your appeal to Excel stated who the driver was. If you were the driver and not your wife, then your wife is entitled to name you as the driver, in which case you, as the driver, can still have an opportunity to appeal to POPLA.

Coupon-mad

Redx wrote: »

nothing you can do if you ignored the original pcn and if you cannot name the driver

should have appealed to excel within 28 days of the pcn being received

Yes but of course we are not telling the OP to pay, just to make that clear!

So I’m not sure what to do now as the last letter from the Debt Recovery Company, dated 18th June 2014, said the file was being passed back to Excel Parking Services, and this letter was dated 4th July.

…and I have no means to go to POPLA at this stage.

Which was the exact same position everyone used to be in before POPLA existed and the sky didn't fall in without POPLA appeal! Not the end of the World, ignore debt collector letters and if you get a LBCCC (any letter which looks as if it's a letter before county court claim) from Excel themselves then respond robustly as shown in one of the sticky threads collate by Crabman, 3rd from the top of the forum, about LBCCC Fightback.

If the driver and the keeper were not one and the same person then do as arabesque_101 says above and your wife should give your name as the driver but preferably supplying a DIFFERENT postal address for service of documents (yes I know you live in the same house but everyone has friends/family/neighbours or a work address they can use). Don't expect Excel to then send you a PCN of your own (they should, but they won't) after your wife has named you as the driver. Point being though, your wife then becomes untouchable as keeper once she's given the name and a serviceable address of the driver, end of story for her, she's then not liable at all in law.

And as for you, if Excel can't be arsed to send you a PCN of your own to appeal then you are untouchable as well, in reality.

Both of you would have a robust defence if Excel tried court and they hadn't shifted liability to you properly and given you a PCN.

All of the above might be pointless if your appeal already gave away who was driving though - hope your WIFE signed it as the registered keeper.

Redx

I am certainly not advocating paying the invoice , far from it

I hope they didnt give away the drivers details either, until now

I hoped they could reset the clock which was why I mentioned it

this car park has been pay and display for a few years and there are plenty of signs there having featured on the BBC and those signs have been changed twice at least so although they may have missed the signs, it is a private p&d car park

but as to the current scenario, there is nothing that can be done other than to weather the storm and hope excel dont go down the MCOL route, unless the driver can be named and receive a PCN in their own name, then use a popla appeal letter from here and go to popla

unfortunately, despite all the detail in post #1 , the real info required wasnt given, and too many times people focus on the past and what has happened so far, instead of what, if anything , can be done about it

yet all that info is in the NEWBIES sticky thread , as most of us already know only too well

the worst problem here was seeking advice from somebody who obviously hadnt a clue about this subject, instead of appealing, as it would be over by now with a popla win had an appeal gone in near the start of the saga. this "friend" should pay the invoice as pennance for giving out extremely bad advice

this "friend" clearly has no knowledge about the 6 year rule for an MCOL

hope that clarifies it more than my previous reply

Monkey_Harris

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

To clarify - I was the driver, and we sent the appeal to Excel in my wife's name as the registered keeper.

There was no ticket on the windscreen, so we will now try to 'reset the clock' by naming me as the driver and using a different address.

I'll let you know how that goes.

How long should I wait for a reply, given that they've already told me they will no longer respond to us? And what should I do if nothing comes?

Many thanks again

bod1467

So get your wife to send EXCEL a letter naming you as the driver. Make sure the letter states that by doing so she is discharging any liability she may have had under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

She also notifies the debt collector that she has identified the driver (attach a copy of the letter), and that they must now refer this back to their client.

To both of them say that any further correspondence (to her), other than to acknowledge her letters and confirm no further action against her, will deemed harassment and will be pursued in the small claims court for damages.

Coupon-mad

As I said, use a different address for you for service, just to make you an entirely different target and to stop Excel wriggling and saying you 'must have seen' her PCN! Don't hold your breath though, I stand by what I said and this is just an exercise to remove liability for her and to leave Excel stranded, they won't play ball and won't issue a new PCN to you:

Don't expect Excel to then send you a PCN of your own (they should, but they won't) after your wife has named you as the driver. Point being though, your wife then becomes untouchable as keeper once she's given the name and a serviceable address of the driver, end of story for her, she's then not liable at all in law. And as for you, if Excel can't be arsed to send you a PCN of your own to appeal then you are untouchable as well, in reality.

Both of you would have a robust defence if Excel tried court and they hadn't shifted liability to you properly and given you a PCN.

It's all a game and if Excel won't play it properly that's their lookout.

Monkey_Harris

Again, thanks guys for your help.

We will definitely use a different address for naming me!

This is a draft of a letter to send Excel, pieced together from zzzLazyDaisy's letter in response to an LBCCC, plus with added bits from bod1467's post above. Does this sound ok to send?

##########################

Excel Parking Services Ltd,
Central Payment Office,
PO Box 4777,
Sheffield
S9 9DJ

DATE

Your Ref: REF
Notice Serial No: REF
Vehicle Registration Mark: REG

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am the registered keeper of the above mentioned vehicle.

I am writing to acknowledge your letter dated 4th July 2014 and to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged 'parking event'. Therefore you must pursue the driver, whose details are:

Name
Address

Please note: this discharges my obligation as Registered Keeper under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and any court proceedings will be defended on that basis.

Note also that I am writing to your Debt Recovery Company to inform them that I have identified the driver (attaching a copy of this letter) and that they must now refer this back to their client.

Any further correspondence to me, other than to acknowledge my letters and confirm no further action against me, will be deemed harassment and will be pursued in the small claims court for damages.

Yours faithfully,


Name

Coupon-mad

Great! You could add this to this sentence:

Therefore you must pursue the driver, who has so far NOT been given a copy of any of your letters to me, and whose details are:

Monkey_Harris

Excellent - *very* good point!

I'll make the change then draft up a letter for the Debt Collectors later today.