Euro Car Parks fine

Jim_Sting

Hello,


On 28th June I received a windscreen ticket from Euro Car Parks while parked in Marks & Spencer's car park.
I was visiting at next to no notice to conduct some work, and was in the store for around 45 minutes.
I arrived during torrential rain - you could barely see 2 feet in front of you. My primary concern was getting into the store without resembling a drowned rat, in order to retain a degree of professionalism, as when I left home in just a shirt 15 minutes earlier, the sun was shining. The rain did not let up however, so I just made a run for it.


I did not purchase a ticket - only upon leaving the store did I notice that the signs that I had paid no attention to on entry indicated it was a pay and display car park. I wasn't expecting this to be the case.


I've read a lot of the newbie stuff, and associated threads but am a little confused. All of them seem to refer to incidents where someone has been charged for over staying, or leaving sites while using the car park.
My question is, can I appeal the fine when I did not buy a ticket? If so, do I use the standard appeal letter from this site?


Many thanks


Jim Sting

Dee140157

Yes and yes.

Redx

as above, but I will help you to amend the thread title as it uses the incorrect word (the f word)

Euro Car Parks speculative invoice (pcn)

Jim_Sting

Great - thanks for the confirmation.

Jim_Sting

Hello again.
I have now received the Notice to Keeper letter from Euro Car Parks.
Having read the information on the boards, I reviewed schedule 4 of the POFA 2012, in which paragraph 8 states that the notice must:, then in sub paragraph 2) e) 'state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper-'.


The notice to keeper letter I received did not do this. It simply said 'The driver has failed to pay the amount within the time specified.' There was no other mention of the driver.
Also, the notice was addressed to Mr 'My surname'. No initial or first name was included.
As such, should I mention this in my first appeal? I have drafted the following paragraph. Is this suitable?




The Notice to Keeper letter sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle did not state explicitly that you (Euro Car Parks) do not know the name of the driver, or have a current address for service for the driver and the pass the notice on to the driver. You are required to do so as per schedule 4, paragraph 8, sub-paragraph 2) e), of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Also, the Notice to Keeper letter was addressed simply to ‘Mr ******’. It is not clear which Mr ****** you are referring to. As such, I as the registered keeper of the vehicle argue ‘no keeper liability’.


Given the NTK was addressed to Mr 'My surname', should I sign my appeal letter as such, or should I include my first name also?


Thanks

Coupon-mad

I would add your first initial only.

And surely the NTK also fails to identify the 'creditor' who could be them, could be the landowner, could be an onsite leasehold business or a managing agent or another party entirely. Paragraph 8 says a NTK has to 'Identify the creditor' which in simple terms means saying 'the creditor is' or putting 'Creditor' somewhere after their company name. Does it?

Jim_Sting

Coupon-mad - I think you're right. Nowhere on the NTK does it refer to anyone as 'the creditor'. The name Euro Car Parks appears at the top of the NTK, and at the top of the detachable slip they would have you enclose a cheque with, and is listed as the body whom you make cheques payable to. The only other reference to any party on the NTK is where it says 'Car Park - Marks & Spencer - Wokingham'.


Is this what you mean?


Thanks

Jim_Sting

Following the recent response on this thread from Coupon-mad, I have altered the paragraph on my appeal to:




The Notice to Keeper letter sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle did not state explicitly that the creditor does not know the name of the driver, or have a current address for service for the driver and the pass the notice on to the driver. Neither does it state who the creditor is. The NTK is required to do both as per schedule 4, paragraph 8, sub-paragraph 2) e), of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Also, the Notice to Keeper letter was addressed simply to ‘Mr Brooks’. It is not clear which Mr Brooks you are referring to. As such, I as the registered keeper of the vehicle argue ‘no keeper liability’.


I must admit I am a little confused. The NTK does say the following:
'If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given, the PCN has not been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and current address for service of the driver, under schedule 4 of the POFA 2012, we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the act, to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much of that amount that remain unpaid. Failure to pay the outstanding balance or provide a serviceable address for the driver may result in you incurring additional charges from civil action being taken against you.'


So - does this in fact mean that they have provided the necessary information specified in the POFA 2012?
Sorry if I'm not coming across very well. I just want to make sure I get this right in order to maximise my chances of a successful appeal.
Thanks

Umkomaas

If this is your initial appeal to ECP, then I wouldn't be altering anything from the template. You are extremely unlikely to have the charge cancelled as a result of anything you add/remove from that template. In fact you are more likely to 'mess up' by tinkering.

The two main purposes of the template are to 'warn' the PPC that you're being assisted by the forum and you won't be any pushover, and to acquire a POPLA code, through which, with further forum help, you will defeat the PPC's charge (and cost them £27 in the process).

You need to keep your powder dry on such issues as no creditor identified for your POPLA appeal.

Jim_Sting

Brilliant - thanks for your help.

Coupon-mad

Yep keep it for POPLA stage - this will be like shelling peas, we never lose v ECP so stop worrying!