Fraud on the Sony Playstation Network SEN - you have NO rights! - ABYSMAL SERVICE

Johnmcl7

Eurogamer have an article up on it:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-28-playstation-digital-policy-under-the-spotlight-on-bbcs-watchdog-tonight

Clearly Sony should be doing a lot more to protect security on their system, I can't believe that's how they're replying to people who have had fraudulent purchases on their account. Unlike when a physical product is shipped out, they can easily revoke the rights for a digital product on the console plus they should have two factor authentication given that's fairly standard now for similar systems.

John

DCFC79

Just use the top up cards.

It is pretty bad its happening, you'd think Sony would reimburse those affected especially since the network has been hacked and details stolen.

Sheepster

Hope this isn't the wrong question to ask, but has the "opposition" - Microsoft with the Xbox accounts done any better on this score?

This is NOT supposed to be an invite for fanboyism about their choice of console, so don't even dream of trying that one, it's just a thought.

Mickey_Taker

Sheepster wrote: »

Hope this isn't the wrong question to ask, but has the "opposition" - Microsoft with the Xbox accounts done any better on this score?

This is NOT supposed to be an invite for fanboyism about their choice of console, so don't even dream of trying that one, it's just a thought.

It is very hard to compare and contrast without definitive empirical data, but, from various viewpoints on the internet, the general consensus would be:

- Microsoft are better in sorting any issue like this that arises, but certainly aren't perfect.
- The big one is Microsoft themselves protect the account better, at least providing two step authentication, which Sony don't offer. In this day and age, the lack of this is appalling on Sony's behalf. Certainly if this was offered, cases like mine and those covered on Watchdog last night would be reduced.

Watchdog did a great job last night. Sony came out with a typical response. They still don't accept any accountability and continue to insult their consumers with accusations and demeaning 'tips' on how to prevent this from happening. Tips that they obviously don't follow themselves. They are a joke, and are rightly receiving plenty of negative press today.

Johnmcl7

Sheepster wrote: »

Hope this isn't the wrong question to ask, but has the "opposition" - Microsoft with the Xbox accounts done any better on this score?

This is NOT supposed to be an invite for fanboyism about their choice of console, so don't even dream of trying that one, it's just a thought.

It's an entirely reasonable question and you're quite right to ask it.

I'd agree with the post above that the general consensus is Microsoft handle this much better usually dealing with fraudulent account use in that they do so quickly and immediately refund the money. They have a large advantage with this type of system (referring to software downloads rather than other forms of fraud) in that they know which console or system made the purchase and where it's located plus they can revoke the content as well. Hence it's fairly easy for them to tell whether it's likely there had been fraudulent use of the account or not.

I'd also agree on the point that Sony not offering two factor authentication is really poor particularly given it's simple to implement and reasonably effective. If you're not aware of this process, it works by requiring a separate system to authenticate an account which is frequently e-mail. So if someone logs their account into a new console or PC, they get an e-mail with a code they need to enter to trust that console or PC. It means if someone gets your username and password for the console/PC service it's not enough as they need e-mail access as well.

John

DCFC79

Sheepster wrote: »

Hope this isn't the wrong question to ask, but has the "opposition" - Microsoft with the Xbox accounts done any better on this score?

This is NOT supposed to be an invite for fanboyism about their choice of console, so don't even dream of trying that one, it's just a thought.

I agree Microsoft had issues last year if I remember correctly. I don't recall them being on watchdog or as much furore as the PSN.

bluenoseam

Probably something to do with the fact that Xbox Live has been hit with a DDoS - albeit on a massive scale, but not definitively "hacked" to the stage where user details were stolen. Sony on the other hand have been & on a massive scale which included the theft of data inclusive of card details of potentially millions of customers. (Despite that is repeated & very explicit warnings from retail, industry & security experts which warned of the potential damage.)

I wouldn't go so far as to say Microsoft are any better - or worse at handling these situations, but ultimately there's only so much you can expect from any company. Sony on the other hand have rarely covered themselves in glory when dealing with these issues, although this may sting many it's not exactly unforeseen. In Japan it's all about the image, companies will go to extraordinary lengths to protect their image & that's what Sony attempted - it backfired spectacularly.

For as "derogatory" as those tips may have seemed it's pretty simple, follow the tips & you reduce your potential for exposure to risk - something I know retail have been promoting for years. While I have sympathy for people who are victims of crime, it's also true that it angers me that people never listen to common sense until it's too late. From the very get go with PS3 & on the upsurge with Xbox 360 until I left the games retail industry I know I warned almost every customer buying one to NEVER use their card details. I did that because I had been hit by an auto renewal for Xbox Live & earned a dressing down for it happening from the parental unit - more than enough to get me to remove the card details & never put them on again. I simply don't have enough faith in either Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo to trust them with permanent access to my card details on their console networks.

I didn't watch Watchdog's piece on it, but I've seen more than enough stories of people being ripped off to know about it.

Mickey_Taker

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

They have a large advantage with this type of system (referring to software downloads rather than other forms of fraud) in that they know which console or system made the purchase and where it's located plus they can revoke the content as well. Hence it's fairly easy for them to tell whether it's likely there had been fraudulent use of the account or not.


John

Sony can do this too, it's just that they don't...instead choosing to accuse the victim of 'sharing' games or being part of some elaborate scheme to defraud Sony of games and money. You are treated like the criminal from the get go.

When I first contacted them, they knew that my console didn't make the purchase for example, and told me that the console in question had been banned. Yet still decided that I wasn't due a refund.

Later on, after months of struggle, when I got my money back...the games bought were removed from my 'library' on the PS4 menu, thus revoking my access to them.

Essentially, they finally did what should have been done straight away.

facade

What I don't understand is how the fraud works in the first place. If I buy any content from PSN, I am only allowed to download it to two activated systems. If I have a 3rd system, I have to deactivate one of the other 2 to download or use content on this machine.

If I deactivate a syatem, then the downloaded games don't play.

So the hacker must be activating his machine as the second machine on someone's account, and it would be so easy for Sony to kick that machine off and ban it.

If you already have 2 active machines (quite a lot of people have 2 now) then the hack shouldn't even be possible.

Johnmcl7

Mickey_Taker wrote: »

Sony can do this too, it's just that they don't...instead choosing to accuse the victim of 'sharing' games or being part of some elaborate scheme to defraud Sony of games and money. You are treated like the criminal from the get go.

When I first contacted them, they knew that my console didn't make the purchase for example, and told me that the console in question had been banned. Yet still decided that I wasn't due a refund.

Later on, after months of struggle, when I got my money back...the games bought were removed from my 'library' on the PS4 menu, thus revoking my access to them.

Essentially, they finally did what should have been done straight away.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I didn't mean Microsoft specifically, I meant companies selling software digitally have that advantage which as you've said Sony have as well unlike conventional fraud where if someone has purchased a physical product it likely can't be retrieved.

I'm pleased you finally got your money back but as you've said, they should have been able to do it straight away.

John