If eBay's customers are always right, who'll protect its sellers?

techspec

Not often Ebays support for Britains army of online fraudsters gets much airing - so always nce to see the press occasionaly cover it.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/11/ebay-buyer-complained-decide-against-seller

"If eBay's customers are always right, who'll protect its sellers?

When a buyer with a two-week history complained about an iPhone being stolen in the post, eBay decided against the seller without conducting a proper investigation.........."

This_Year

Interesting article but whole swathes of misinformation and bad advice in the comments below it!

RFW

The implication is that the buyer was lying, it is entirely possible that he was telling the truth. I have had an item received (a Samsung tab) with the item having been stolen in transit by the pack being tampered with. My wife signed for it and never noticed, I discovered it later, I could well have been away and not discovered that for a few days.

In my case it was obviously the courier driver or someone at his depot who'd stolen it . I was willing to cooperate with the seller but could see circumstances where I couldn't. I have also had a few signed for parcels that were never delivered to the buyer, on one occasion the buyer refused to cooperate and it took me a long time to sort it out. I was fortunate in that Ebay sided with me when the buyer put a claim in, I later managed to sort out the courier and get the buyer a refund.

It's a shame Ebay often don't take into consideration the seller's reputation but they can't do that at the expense of a buyer who may well be telling the truth.

RFW

This comment was interesting. How does taking a picture of an item with a stamp on prove postage? "refund without question" is a legal requirement in some cases, nothing to do with Ebay. Ebay ruined his business, although they apparently enabled him to turn over £120,000 per annum. Amazing how so many comments have nothing whatsoever to do with the seller with the missing Iphone.

sequinbikinisdotcom wrote:

11 July 2014 11:39am



I Have given up selling on ebay (selling there since 1999) as i was ripped off so many times, fees too high & i am restricted in the ebay search results because i defend my right not to just refund without question, so sales were down to almost zero anyway. ebay is pointless now.
on amazon very occasionally an item doesnt get delivered, i use exactly the same postal system, so by comparison i can say without doubt i am ripped off on ebay by the buyer because ebay and paypal make it so easy and ALWAYS FIND IN FAVOUR OF THE BUYER.
I cant afford registered post on every item, but i take a photo of every parcel with the stamp attached as proof that i have sent it. This is not acceptable to ebay or paypal, but at least i can prove to the buyer its sent.
Last year I was turning over £10,000/month on ebay - but just 4 low Detailed Seller Ratings and they restricted my search visibility.
why bother to work so hard when ebay will destroy your business for just 4 low ratings out of thousands. its so pathetic. never again. ebay has gone bad - how can they still increase profits?? i hear this story so many times from so many other sellers that have quit ebay.
goodbye ebay - i hope you go bust as you ruined my business.

Stoke

It's tricky. I've been on both sides of this. I've been sold a damaged item in which the photos were intentionally taken to hide the damage and I sold a working item to have the buyer ask to return because she was 'short on cash' on to receive the item back broken and in bits and totally irreparable.

In my experience, eBay tend to side with the buyer despite the evidence.

For the item I bought that was damaged, the seller was clearly trying to muddy the water by making suggestions that I could have damaged it myself and that the item was well packaged etc etc and he even pointed out that the photo in the listing showed it working... and there is a point to be made that how, exactly, do eBay know that it arrived to me damaged? I could have damaged it myself, or in the post. I knew it had been damaged before packaging which is why I so strongly pursued it. I pointed out that the photos were intentionally cropped to hide the damage in question and I also pointed out that I'd bought the same device a few weeks before and hadn't complained so that any suggestion of me trying to scam the seller was completely bogus. I also noted that the seller was very quick to claim that I'd had the device for too long (as in, I complained the next day, and he claimed that after the first day I should have got in contact with him). eBay ruled in my favour and then a whole load of !!!! kicked off with the seller but we won't go into that.

My selling experience was quite different. In two separate messages, the female admitted dismantling the device (an iPhone) with her friend and that she'd put it back together as 'best she could'. Clearly as 'best she could' was not at all, because as I said, the device arrived in pieces in the box it was sold in. It was badly damaged and when I took it to my friend who repairs them, he said it was beyond repair due to a small crack in the mainboard. I provided eBay with the messages in-which she admitted dismantling the device, I provided them with the technicians report to say that it had not been put back together properly and that it was now damaged beyond repair, yet eBay found in her favour and insisted I refund her. I phoned them up and exploded to some random customer services agent on the phone and they agreed to make a 'half' refund, so I don't know if that means they paid the rest or she just got a partial refund. Either way the whole thing was a joke and I was left with an expensive piece of crap.

I now only buy on eBay. Anything I sell goes on Gumtree.

techspec

In cases where its impossible to tell who's lying - Ebay should just cover it - they make enough money.

In fact - are they missing a trick? Why not offer sellers scammer insurance. You pay extra and any comebacks fall on ebay (you just prove posting).

I would rather give ebay my £1.10 than Royal Mail for a signature they never get.

Ive just received another item described as new. Not only is it not new - the plug, cable and charger are not originals. Should i contact buyer and fight it out - or say it never arrived for an easier life?

See - we can all abuse Ebay if we want. But some of us want a bit of respect based on our record against a newbie with no feedback - and common sense.

Rev

I don't sell on eBay. Just buy. And I know that should I, for any reason I care to dream up want to return the item for a full refund, or if I had no morals and just wanted a refund or a partial refund I could get it without much effort.

Order item. Open item not received. Get refund.


Order item. Seller sends tracked. Open case saying empty parcel received. Get refund. Keep item.


Order item. Open SNAD case, even if item is perfect. Return. Get refund.


Order item. Open case with PayPal saying my a card was used fraudulently. Get refund. Keep item.


Order item. Open. Case, imply (but not directly say) I will leave neg feedback unless I get partial refund, going by the amount of advice I see on this forum telling people to give a partial refund there's a great chance I'll get a partial refund. Keep item and pay less.


As a buyer. eBay is great for me. I can screw sellers over at will and face zero consequences should I want to (I never have, I have morals). Won't even get a neg feedback. Or even a positive with negative comments.


Were I a seller. I'd literally be having a panic attack anticipations the myriad of issues the buyer could cause me every time I sold something.


This is why I don't sell on eBay and applaud anyone who successfully does.

RFW

Rev wrote: »

Order item. Open item not received. Get refund.


Order item. Seller sends tracked. Open case saying empty parcel received. Get refund. Keep item.


Order item. Open SNAD case, even if item is perfect. Return. Get refund.


Order item. Open case with PayPal saying my a card was used fraudulently. Get refund. Keep item.

The one in bold is (sort of) within the law, the others are all illegal. Yes, some will get away with it, just as some get away with shoplifting and any other number of crimes.

Rev

RFW wrote: »

The one in bold is (sort of) within the law, the others are all illegal. Yes, some will get away with it, just as some get away with shoplifting and any other number of crimes.

The first one is perfectly legal. If my item didn't arrive it's not illegal to ask for a refund.

That's my point. You've only got to read these boards to see the amount of buyers who get away with it. Sellers know they're being scammed but can do little to nothing about it. eBay has become a scammers paradise. And it's about time eBay started looking after it's sellers and actually investigating these cases properly and not just (99% of the time) siding with the buyer.

RFW

Rev wrote: »

The first one is perfectly legal. If my item didn't arrive it's not illegal to ask for a refund.

Quite. Although I assumed you were implying that people do this and aren't telling the truth, which is, of course, illegal. I would hope that everyone on here would be happy for a buyer to receive a refund if their item didn't arrive.

As for it being prevalent I don't think that is the case, we only see a skewed sample on here, no one is going to post about every successful transaction they have that arrives at the destination in one piece.

There will always be scammers and chancers, just like there will always be shoplifters. If you run a business, online or off you need to factor it in to your business model.

If you read these pages you would end up believing that no one has ever sold an Iphone or a laptop and managed to get it to the destination with a happy buyer and seller.

Buyer protection has to be the first thing in place on a selling site, the sellers need to be looking after themselves.

soolin

If false INR claims were in any way the norm then I don't think eBay would be where it is today. Rev it is interesting that you say you don't sell on eBay,and that perhaps explains your view. For those of us that do sell on eBay yes there are real,issues, but endless false INRs are not an issue.

It really is best to ignore what you read on boards like this and other forums as the 0.00001% of times something goes wrong it gets reported here and not the actual facts of how it actually works.

I have a colleague at work who says she will not go to. Spain as 'everyone' who goes there is likely to be robbed or raped..as that is what the popular press states. I spend a great deal of time there, in fact I am there now, and have never had an issue.