share dealing with right of survivorship

Mattygroves2

The only option you've got is a joint tenant dealing account and yes it would have to be declared on IHT forms (HMRC rules) as part of the estate but then passing to the other joint holder (s). Most brokers will do a joint account for you which will pass under joint tenant rules as already stated.

I think the only thing that will do anything remotely similar to your aims would be to put the shares into a discretionary trust which would take them outside your estate completely and if you survive for 7 years there would be no need to declare it on the IHT forms. There will be tax implications in life though.

bowlhead99

contentment wrote: »

The joint accounts would give me sole control of the funds untill the access details are passed on (by letter to be opened on my death) to the persons i set up as joint holders.

I'm not aware of brokers offering joint accounts where one of the joint holders is excluded from control giving you the sole control. Unless it was a trust account and not a true "joint account".

On a joint account, whether for banking or broking, typically they are set up so both parties' authorities are needed for each transaction, or either party, but not just one only to exclude the other from any power. If that latter one is what you need, maybe that's possible in the offline world with the right forms and agreements but isn't normal online, I wouldn't think.

So the only way to retain exclusive control is not to tell the other party that they are a joint owner of the assets, liabilities and obligations within the account.

Presumably the service provider would not want you to fraudulently sign someone up to their services without that person's knowledge. And presumably if you did, it would make it pretty difficult for them to file their income and gains tax returns? What am I missing?

You seem to want to give the assets away, but retain control and benefit from them for now, and have it not count as a gift, and then when you die the other person(s) gets them and it still doesn't count as a gift or an inheritance under the IHT rules?

If it were simple and low risk and cheap and tax free, then lots of people would do it rather than use trusts for estate planning.

xylophone

It would now seem that what you want is not simply a

joint share dealing account that has right of survivorship.

With regard to your executor, it is his legal duty to satisfy himself that he has declared all your assets when he completes the estate return.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5fb29342-e563-11e1-8ac0-00144feab49a.html#axzz37RWkoxQ is an interesting article - type
"executor's liability" into Google.

I am sure that you would not wish to lay your executor open to accusations of fraud?

contentment

I did not intend starting a debate. I thought someone might know of an online broker that offered a suitable account.
As far as i am conserned this is end of thread.

bowlhead99

contentment wrote: »

I did not intend starting a debate. I thought someone might know of an online broker that offered a suitable account.
As far as i am conserned this is end of thread.

I just looked at the T&Cs with TD Direct, who say that if you have a joint account and one of you dies, they will transfer the investments and the obligations into the survivor's sole name with the T&Cs remaining in force between them and the survivor. Unless you notify them otherwise they will be entitled to treat that person as the only person with any interest in the account.

However, that particular firm only allows one person to be a joint account holder with you, and it sounds like you might want more, and might want the joint holder(s) not to know about the account until they open an envelope after you die. That is not going to work, given they have joint and several responsibilities for "accidental" overdrafts etc, and will have tax reporting responsibilities on their share etc.

And your goal of you having sole control is not going to work with a provider like TD who will happily take instructions from either of the joint holders (unless they know you are having a divorce or something and might want dual signatories).

So, that was why I was trying to probe for more information on how in practice you expected it to work. Otherwise it is going to be difficult for someone to tell you if their provider seems to offer the combination of features that you need.

If you find a provider that does do what you want, please come back and let us know, rather than letting the thread die. With the example provider I mentioned above, it only works by doing it behind the back of the other joint owner and the provider, in which case you are on dodgy ground because it would sound like you are trying to disguise your tax avoidance on a mission to "minimise taxes" which some might characterise as trying to evade them rather than simply minimise them with standard planning.