Green taxes -Plastic bags to be banned ??

Gingham_Ribbon

There was also a time when people didn't buy huge overflowing trolley loads of stuff from the supermarket every week and have an overflowing wheelie bin full of rubbish at the end of the week as well as an overflowing recycling bin and stuff jammed into their neighbours' bins too.

We had a small, round bin that had wire round it to keep foxes out and a rubber lid. It held about 2 binliners. We didn't fill it. How come all the marketting and supermarket ploys have been so successful in such a short space of time that people really don't know how to dispose of their waste in the bins provided?

Carrier bags are the least of the problem imo. All the overpackaging of the processed and unnecessary rubbish is a bigger one. Why on earth for example are toothpaste tubes and tomato puree tubes sold in cardboard boxes?

Are food prices goign to reduce because the supermarkets aren't footing the bill for bags? Nope. Are the supermarkets going to pressure companies into reducing packaging? Not unless we start leaving our packaging at the tills or just not buying it in the first place. Let's not pretend that this is actually a big step for the environment. It will reduce some waste but have no significant impact, because that would involve both the consumer and businesses actually making an effort.

dccarm

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

same 'ere. I've a drawer full of bin bags, like many people probably, which get reused for bins. I don't have a kitchen bin because they stink so i use a carrier bag and then sling it in the wheely bin.
Does this report / idea think everybody goes shopping, gets a carrier bag and then just throw it away? most people i know stick them in a drawer, under the sink or in another carrier bag till they need one.

I usually go shopping after work, does that mean i should keep a car full of carrier bags in case i want to go shopping?

Just pay the 40 or 50p tax to buy four or five new bags, and throw them in a kitchen drawer too.

dccarm

peter999 wrote: »

Anyone that falls for ANY Green marketing nonsense pushed by Supermarkets, needs their heads testing.

canvas bags v plastic bags :rotfl:

Marketing ploy on consumer guilt or Reuse/Recycle/Reduce waste

The idea that Supermarkets have any genuine interest in Green issues, is patently ridiculous.

peter999

They are businesses, out to make money. They are not setting the green agenda, they are following one that has been set elsewhere and they obviously recognise there is a genuine interest in it if they believe they can make money, or good copy out of it. But I don't see any suggestion that they do have a genuine interest in it.

You said earlier people should recycle, reuse etc. How do you suggest we get them to do that?

magyar

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

There was also a time when people didn't buy huge overflowing trolley loads of stuff from the supermarket every week and have an overflowing wheelie bin full of rubbish at the end of the week as well as an overflowing recycling bin and stuff jammed into their neighbours' bins too.

We had a small, round bin that had wire round it to keep foxes out and a rubber lid. It held about 2 binliners. We didn't fill it. How come all the marketting and supermarket ploys have been so successful in such a short space of time that people really don't know how to dispose of their waste in the bins provided?

Carrier bags are the least of the problem imo. All the overpackaging of the processed and unnecessary rubbish is a bigger one. Why on earth for example are toothpaste tubes and tomato puree tubes sold in cardboard boxes?

Are food prices goign to reduce because the supermarkets aren't footing the bill for bags? Nope. Are the supermarkets going to pressure companies into reducing packaging? Not unless we start leaving our packaging at the tills or just not buying it in the first place. Let's not pretend that this is actually a big step for the environment. It will reduce some waste but have no significant impact, because that would involve both the consumer and businesses actually making an effort.

I personally agree with you in most regards, G, but you're coming from the point of view of someone who gives a stuff. I know what you mean, that there's a danger that people say 'ah, we've got rid of plastic bags now, our conscience is clear' in the same way some people say 'well, I gave £2 to Comic Relief, so I can be selfish the rest of the year'.

But there is another school of thought that says that once you've accepted there is a problem, you can start to pick off at issues. It took many years for environmentalism to be taken seriously (tell me, in the early 1980s I owned a T-shirt with 'eco' written on it, and you don't want to KNOW how much ridicule I got...) but now, apart from some idiots who think it's some government conspiracy, this is now firmly on the agenda.

So yes, I do agree that the amount of packaging is the key issue, but if we can get into the mindset that we don't need plastic bags, maybe we don't need all the rest, either.

magyar

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

Why on earth for example are toothpaste tubes and tomato puree tubes sold in cardboard boxes?

Easier to stack :beer:

IvanOpinion

magyar wrote: »

You could have a point. Someone has to pay for all the new non-smoking signs we need.

Seriously, though - some people have this constant rhetoric about 'tax raised for other purposes' as though Brown and his cohorts were sitting in a room wallpapered in £50 notes and eating swan.

I don't know about that ... £50 notes could well have been cheaper than what the Lord Chancellor used

Ivan

IvanOpinion

peter999 wrote: »

Anyone that falls for ANY Green marketing nonsense pushed by Supermarkets, needs their heads testing.

We have serious problems with waste management at the minute. People (including on this board) are very quick to blame the supermarkets and the manufacturers for the amount of waste ... they often say that supermarkets/manufacturers shoudl be leading the way (and I agree). So whenever they do something then suddenly the cynicism sets in.

Having said that supermarkets will love the policy because they have an excuse for making the customers pay for an expensive resource. You only have to go into the likes of lidl that have charged for bags for years to see that customers willingly use the cardboard trays, reuse bags or load the groceries directly into their cars.

Marketing ploy on consumer guilt or Reuse/Recycle/Reduce waste

You have presented a totally mashed up message here Peter. The proper message is REDUCE / reuse / recycle. People should stop patting themselves oin the back for "reuse" and "recycle" .. both are BAD side-effects from their failure to REDUCE.


I remember DWs grand mother and her little string bags. She would walk almost 2 miles to the supermarket, buy her groceries to last her a week, fit them into the string bags and carry them home (I am guessing each bag would have weighed about 5-10 kilos). If you asked todays generation to do that they would consider it medieval torture (pack of wooses).

Charging for plastic bags is a fantastic policy and should have been introduced by all supermarkets years ago. Personally I think free car parking is another issue that should be done away with.

Ivan

peter999

IvanOpinion wrote: »

You have presented a totally mashed up message here Peter. The proper message is...
I remember DWs grand mother and her little string bags. She would walk almost 2 miles to the supermarket, buy her groceries to last her a week, fit them into the string bags and carry them home (I am guessing each bag would have weighed about 5-10 kilos). If you asked todays generation to do that they would consider it medieval torture (pack of wooses).

Charging for plastic bags is a fantastic policy and should have been introduced by all supermarkets years ago. Personally I think free car parking is another issue that should be done away with.

Maybe that's because the "Green policies" being adopted by big business & Government & their motives are questionable, if not hypocritical.

I agree it is time for ACTION:

-out of town stores should be banned to reduce food miles
-food should be produced locally/in UK
-people should shop locally
-reduce car usage to get people shopping in their local area & carrying things by hand.
-imports should be reduced

I'm sure ALL people/families will happily agree with this !! :T

peter999

magyar

peter999 wrote: »

Maybe that's because the "Green policies" being adopted by big business & Government & their motives are questionable, if not hypocritical.

I agree it is time for ACTION:

-out of town stores should be banned to reduce food miles
-food should be produced locally/in UK
-people should shop locally
-reduce car usage to get people shopping in their local area & carrying things by hand.
-imports should be reduced

I'm sure ALL people/families will happily agree with this !! :T

I agree with all of the theory behind what you're saying, but you'll have people up in arms - after all, how do you actually achieve these

- you can't knock down out of town stores, so you'd have to start by banning planning permission for them, which in itself is hard to do (for example, the government is actively promoting wind power, but in many areas it's impossible to get planning permission because that's granted by local councils, not central government)

- you'd have to replan and rebuild almost every town in the country.

- if you want to reduce imports, you either have to put an import tax in place (cue the 'it's all a con to raise money for Gordon's swan' brigade) or you impose limits on imports.

- at the same time we will need to rebuild the entire manufacturing industry in this country.

At a rough estimate, you'll probably put 10m people out of work, raise inflation to astronomical levels and be out of office within a month.

Fifer

peter999 wrote: »

Maybe that's because the "Green policies" being adopted by big business & Government & their motives are questionable, if not hypocritical.

Possibly peter, but maybe they are reactionary. Perhaps they are doing it because they see no option, the possible alternatives being even more unpalatable. I do agree that supermarkets certainly aren't doing it out of altruism, but that doesn't mean it's not a positive move.

Ivan wrote:

Personally I think free car parking is another issue that should be done away with.

With graduated charges and the places furthest from the shop being free.