Discuss !!!!

yangptangkipperbang

Letter in today's Daily Telegraph:

SIR – I’d be surprised if Labour’s health spokesmen are against the proposals I am putting to Labour’s National Policy Review on refinancing the NHS and social care. The objection you report them making is squared in the report.

As the gainers from social care will be overwhelmingly older people, it would, of course, be unfair if yet another burden was placed on non-grey voters. That’s why I propose that all pensioner income should be brought within the National Insurance contributory system so that pensioners, who will most benefit from social care being combined with the NHS, and from the NHS service itself, should pay their fair whack once their income is high enough.

On the financing crisis described by Mary Riddell (Comment, July 2), there is no alternative to my proposal, except to accept that within a Parliament the NHS we know will not exist – no happy prospect for voters looking to Labour to protect them.

Frank Field MP (Lab)
London SW1

seven-day-weekend

Don't disagree with paying NI, once income is high enough, but I suppose we still have to accept that those on Pension Credit (who quite often are better off than those who do not qualify, because of all the perks that go with it), would yet again pay nothing.

zygurat789

yangptangkipperbang wrote: »

Letter in today's Daily Telegraph:

SIR –

all pensioner income should be brought within the National Insurance contributory system so that pensioners, who will most benefit from social care being combined with the NHS, and from the NHS service itself, should pay their fair whack (in the telegraph letters!!!) once their income is high enough.

On the financing crisis described by Mary Riddell (Comment, July 2), there is no alternative to my proposal, except to accept that within a Parliament the NHS we know will not exist – no happy prospect for voters looking to Labour to protect them.

Frank Field MP (Lab)
London SW1

Pensioner income usually comes from more than one source and it is unlikely that this will apply to those on the new flat rate pension alone so it will have to be done through taxation not NI.
Some years ago now, but I'm sure the same sort of thing still happens. My mother was in a home and they took her pension and gave her pocket money, that;'s OK. Her friend in the next room was on IB which was non-taxable and paid, on election, until well after state pension age; apparently the authorities couldn't touch the IB so she paid nothing and kept all her IB
Ironing out that sort of anomaly would reduce the subsidy a bit.

seven-day-weekend

I don't think you can now get IB and State Pension together.

Certainly my husband's IB stopped when he got his State Pension at the start of this year.

TBH, I didn't think you ever could, because IB is an income replacement for those too sick to work, it is not available to those past retirement age. Are you sure you don't mean DLA?

Roger1

National Insurance is just another tax anyway - it certainly doesn't cover the costs of the NHS and benefits - and there is logic in combining the two forms of tax.

Currently, pensioners over retirement age pay income tax but not National Insurance. An easy way to combine the two without affecting pensioners' payments would be to increase tax-free thresholds by the cost of National Insurance.

Mind you, since Gideon Osborne did away with the pensioners' threshold (and reduced the top rate of income tax), he's not to be trusted in any meddling affecting pensioners without scrutiny.

pollypenny

I would be happy to pay 1 or 2% NI. Surely, if a pensioner has an income high enough to pay tax, then some contribution to the health service is to general benefit.

However, the best way of financing the Health Service is for all tax payers to pay contributions at the same level on ALL their salaries!

I was in that ludicrous position of not paying NI on the last thousand or so of my salary. Then the government introduced 1% on salary over £34,000 or thereabouts.

Errata

once their income is high enough.

How high is 'high enough'?

Frogletina

Errata wrote: »

How high is 'high enough'?

Usually when most people talk about a high income, they mean higher than theirs.

zygurat789

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I don't think you can now get IB and State Pension together.

Certainly my husband's IB stopped when he got his State Pension at the start of this year.

TBH, I didn't think you ever could, because IB is an income replacement for those too sick to work, it is not available to those past retirement age. Are you sure you don't mean DLA?

You never could get them together and when you achieved SPA then the IB went down to the SP amount, however, the IB was tax free, unlike the pension and you could elect to receive either IB or SP for another 5 (I think) years. AND whilst they could charge you most of your pension they couldn't touch the IB.
Which would you elect to receive?

zygurat789

Roger1 wrote: »

National Insurance is just another tax anyway - it certainly doesn't cover the costs of the NHS and benefits - and there is logic in combining the two forms of tax.

Currently, pensioners over retirement age pay income tax but not National Insurance. An easy way to combine the two without affecting pensioners' payments would be to increase tax-free thresholds by the cost of National Insurance.

Mind you, since Gideon Osborne did away with the pensioners' threshold (and reduced the top rate of income tax), he's not to be trusted in any meddling affecting pensioners without scrutiny.

Surely that would exacerbate the proble?

The state should be a last resort, all benefits should be means tested, it seems totalled wrong that someone who cons the state into paying him a £750,000 (later reduced to £500,000) occupational pension also gets at least a basic state pension.
All universal benefits are an attempt to buck the market and will only lead to a distortion of the economy. The only saving grace is that the rest of Europe are much worse at this than us.

zygurat789

pollypenny wrote: »

I would be happy to pay 1 or 2% NI. Surely, if a pensioner has an income high enough to pay tax, then some contribution to the health service is to general benefit.

However, the best way of financing the Health Service is for all tax payers to pay contributions at the same level on ALL their salaries!

I was in that ludicrous position of not paying NI on the last thousand or so of my salary. Then the government introduced 1% on salary over £34,000 or thereabouts.

So if you have a high income then you don't notice the charge and your firm pays for you to go BUPA, and if you have a low income then it hits you really hard. Still better than having to pay a prescription charge on 3 items a week for weeks on end if you have a chronic condition.