Claiming repayment of commision and other charges from pension fund.

BML

In my long tussle with the company that "managed" my AVC I extracted the details on the charges and management fees they had extracted. Is it possible that I am entitled to reclaim that money on the basis that I was never informed they would be extracting it when I started the AVC?
If this is in the wrong forum please let me know.

dunstonh

Can you clarify if you mean charges, management fees or commission. You seem to switch between all three and its not clear which you mean.

Is it possible that I am entitled to reclaim that money on the basis that I was never informed they would be extracting it when I started the AVC?

it would be extremely rare to succeed on a complaint like that. You would need evidence of non disclosure. Commission disclosure was required from 1995 and all illustrations issued at point of sale from that date onwards included that information. it would have been followed up in the illustration sent with the cancellation rights as well.

The regulator set out the requirements for illustrations. Explicit plan charges were never a requirement until more recent times. Earlier illustrations just had to show the effect of charges on the plan and how they would reduce returns down by x%.

How did you expect them to make money on the contracts they offered if there were no charges?

BML

You ask, “Can you clarify if you mean charges, management fees or commission? The simple reply is that as I know little about pensions of AVCs I cannot and I suspect that the Pension Industry likes it that way. I am close to 80 years of age and in my youth we were bought up to respect and trust folk such as Bank Managers and those managing pensions. It is only in the last few years that the lid has been lifted on how they operate. By that I mean the way that interest rates on ISAs disappear with little or no warning.
I’m not sure what you mean by “evidence of non-disclosure” and as someone with a better than average knowledge of the law it seems an impossible concept although obviously evidence of disclosure must by definition be open to discovery.
You state, “Commission disclosure was required from 1995.” I started the AVC in question in 1991.
You ask, “How did you expect them to make money on the contracts they offered if there were no charges?” Strangely enough such questions were never asked in those days. As I wrote above, “In my youth we were bought up to respect and trust folk such as Bank Managers and those managing pensions.”
Looking through a reply to the question I put to the company regarding charges and commission I found the following headings.
Member Charge.
Additional Management Charge.
Endorsement Charge.
Initial Commission.
Renewal Commission.
Late Renewal Premium.

dunstonh

You ask, “How did you expect them to make money on the contracts they offered if there were no charges?” Strangely enough such questions were never asked in those days. As I wrote above, “In my youth we were bought up to respect and trust folk such as Bank Managers and those managing pensions.”

Just as questions were not asked back then, they were not provided either unless requested. There was no requirement to either. Modern disclosure requirements do not apply to historic business transacted many years or even decades prior to disclosure requirements later brought in.

You state, “Commission disclosure was required from 1995.” I started the AVC in question in 1991.

So, they had no requirement to issue a commission disclosure back then. So, that is end of story.

This is a dead duck.

BML

We shall see!

dunstonh

No we won't. It is like complaining that you want money back as an Austin metro you bought 20 years ago didnt have modern safety features.

BML

Leaving aside that you picked probably the worse car ever produced by a British car maker your example merely proves the philosophical lack of accuracy inherent in the use of argument by analogy. The facts are that pension companies were, and for the greater part are, not to be trusted.

[Deleted User]

BML wrote: »

We shall see!

You really won't be seeing anything.
Do remember that it isn't forum members you have to convince..

dunstonh

Leaving aside that you picked probably the worse car ever produced by a British car maker your example merely proves the philosophical lack of accuracy inherent in the use of argument by analogy.

Austin Allegro and Morris Ital would be worse. The metro helped austin last longer than it ever should have.

The facts are that pension companies were, and for the greater part are, not to be trusted.

As you say, you know little about them.

Insider101

BML wrote: »

Leaving aside that you picked probably the worse car ever produced by a British car maker your example merely proves the philosophical lack of accuracy inherent in the use of argument by analogy. The facts are that pension companies were, and for the greater part are, not to be trusted.

The problem with this comment is that it is not a fact but a subjective and highly emotive statement of opinion. Whilst there are horror stories of failures like Equitable Life and the pensions switching scandal of the 90s, they are no more so really than in any other walk of life. They are just possibly higher profile. You're not going to win a complaint by pointing to newspaper articles and saying "look they can't be trusted".

Dunstonh may come across as a bit blunt in his manner but what he is saying is technically sound. Basically:

1) There were no rules requiring disclosure of costs at that time. Hence you can't accuse someone of breaking a rule which didn't exist. It's like if they ban the latest legal high tomorrow, you can't prosecute someone for selling it last year.
2) I think you're going to find it difficult to convince anyone that it is reasonable to expect they would provide the service without being paid.
3) This is leaving aside the possibility that the plan was set up through an intermediary.
4) Bearing in mind that this was 23 years ago most would conclude that the likelihood of your having any kind of vivid memory of what information was provided is pretty slim.

Like Dunstonh said I doubt you would get anywhere with this, truthfully.