Ukcps pcn

jubug

I'm a first poster so any comments would be gratefully received.

A. The PCN/letter relates to a parking event on 25/04/14.

B. A first PCN/letter has not been received.

C. A second dated 23/06/14 has been received - outside the 56 day timescale/limit.

D. The vehicle is on a company lease and the leasehire company says it has never received a first letter/PCN. Having read all the posts re not using mitigation as an excuse I thought about using the template below:

Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not 'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours,



{the registered keeper's name}
ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT - NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE

My questions are:

1. Do we appeal even 'though we have never received the first PCN/letter and the fact that there are no appeal guidelines on the second PCN/letter and also the fact that the PCN/letter is dated outside of the 56 day period?

2. Since it is my husband's company does he use the template above (registered user) or get me as the Company Secretary to appeal?

3. What timescale do we need to appeal within?

4. Do we keep the 56 day timescale as a 'weapon' for appeal to POPLA or add it into the template in the first link?

Many thanks in advance.

Coupon-mad

Depends - if there was no windscreen PCN then just write and give the name and address of the driver. Then the driver can appeal. But as it's UKCPS I am guessing there was an original PCN on the windscreen as they are not known for issuing postal ANPR camera PCNs. So your choices are:

- send the above and hope UKCPS just cancel it, as they sometimes do when they see that template.

or

- name the driver (name and address) if you want to ensure zero liability for your firm. After all the driver sounds like they may have ignored a PCN on the windscreen when they should have appealed.

jubug

Many thanks coupon-mad for such a swift response. Apologies for my tardy response. I have been offline since last Thursday evening.

There was no windscreen PCN and the driver was my husband. In fact he and a colleague both received second letters without ever having received a first letter. It was late during the evening and only nightclubs and pubs were open when the parking event occurred. When debating whether to park or not, a van with UKpcs appeared and they spoke to the driver who authorised them to park there and pointed to a corner of the car park. The PCN states that each vehicle was observed shortly after they spoke with this van driver but there was no photographic evidence contained in the second letter. My husband's colleague made a note of the van registration no. but after hearing nothing for a number of weeks, unfortunately destroyed the note!

So my questions are:

1. Do we appeal using the template I pasted in my original post?

2. Since the car belongs to a contract hire company and is used as a company car by my husband, do I as Company Secretary send the template letter or a different worded letter?

Thanks in advance for any help offered

Dee140157

I am confused by all this.
If it was a lease hire car, the only way the PPC could have got your details is if they received the. PCN and discharged their liability by naming your company as the driver. How else would you have got the PCN have got your address?
They presumably have named your company as keeper (I think). (Not registered keeper). Or they have named your husband as driver, I am not sure which. Thus you then received a Notice to driver. This you need to appeal.
If the company has received the 2nd PCN then as company secretary you can appeal. If your husband has received PCN then he needs to appeal.

Whichever you do you do yes you use the template in post 1 of newbies thread.

Check with lease hire company they have not given you an excessive admin charge or indeed go ahead and pay it.

Coupon-mad

I agree with Dee, looks as though the first letter went to the lease hire firm (which maybe they never kept a copy of if they can't recall giving UKCPS your details). Then UKCPS have written to your company as hirers, so in fact I would do the appeal in the name of the company with you signing it as company secretary.

I would NOT name the driver because we know UKCPS will pretend a windscreen ticket was applied and that both drivers ignored them, which isn't true but would leave the drivers with no recourse to appeal. At lease as the keeper of the cars, your company has your appeal chance now and can win at POPLA or get these cancelled.

I would completely change the appeal letter so it reads like this:


Dear UKCPS,

PCN numbers xxxxxxx and xxxxxxx
We have received your letters about the above vehicles and assume you must have received our details from the lease firm as we are the hirers of the two cars. We will handle the appeals, will not be naming the drivers and I can tell you that all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) You have failed to send us a recognisable 'Notice to Keeper' letter in accordance with the POFA 2012 and more than 56 days have elapsed since the parking incidents, so there is no keeper liability in this instance. You are too late to rectify this error now.
I have spoken to the drivers and there was no windscreen PCN issued in either case; they remember the actions of your employee very well. It was late during the evening and only nightclubs and pubs were open when the parking event occurred (both cars). The drivers were wondering whether to park or not, in the absence of any lit signage at all, when a van with a UKCPS logo appeared. They spoke to the van driver who authorised them to park there and pointed to a corner of the car park. The PCN states that each vehicle was observed shortly after they spoke with this van driver but there was no photographic evidence supplied and if a PCN was applied for the purposes of a photo it was swiftly removed again. This is behaviour which I have discovered has been reported in the public domain about a UKCPS ticket operative before, there was a case before Christmas where a disabled lady was told at night that she could park up in the dark whilst the van was placed to obscure any sign - then the same story unfolded. I wonder if the BPA have had any complaints about this modus operandi by certain UKCPS employees. Of course, this incident warrants a formal complaint to Trading Standards and I have already copied in the BPA Ltd. You appear to have at least one rogue employee.
C) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
D) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
E) Your signage was not lit nor prominent and no consideration flowed between UKCPS and the drivers. There was no contract formed except that of the clear offer that it was OK to park there, from the UKCPS employee in the van.

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract and your employee was involved in entrapment, judging by both drivers' accounts, I suggest that you cancel these unjustified 'tickets'. No doubt the BPA will investigate to see what steps you are taking about the above issues, including the matter of the rogue van driver/phantom ticketer and your error in failing to send a NTK to our company, as keepers, once you had been given our details by the lease firm.

A certificate of posting has been obtained for this and will be the case for all written communications for this appeal and complaint.

Yours,




SEND THAT BY ORDINARY 1ST CLASS POST WITH FREE CERT OF POSTING (NOT SIGNED-FOR!!).

ALSO SEND A COPY TO THE BPA LTD FTAO STEVE CLARK (ADDRESS IS IN POST #6 OF THE NEWBIES THREAD). ATTACH A SHORT COVERING LETTER TO THE BPA'S ONE ASKING THEM TO INVESTIGATE WHY NO NTK LETTERS WERE ISSUED TO YOUR COMPANY (TWO PCNS SO CERTAINLY NOT JUST LOST IN THE POST) AND ASK IF UKCPS GOING TO CANCEL THIS OR WOULD THEY PREFER YOU AS A COMPANY TO MAKE A FORMAL COMPLAINT TO TRADING STANDARDS ABOUT THE EMPLOYEE IN THE VAN?

jubug

Thank you so much Coupon Mad and Dee for the above extremely helpful and useful info. The leasehire company furnished my husband's company name and address to UKCPS and we finally received a NTK/driver/hirer dated 24 July; well outside of the 56 day time limit. I have copied, pasted and printed the letter above posted by Coupon Mad on 09 July and am posting it in the morning as instructed, copying in the BPA also. Will keep you guys posted as to the result.

Coupon-mad

Oh dear you are posting it on day 27. We know what UKCPS will say about when it was received...why the delay from 24th July? This may be too late now, should have appealed when I told you to, or as soon as you got the 24th July letter.

Don't send it recorded delivery.

Dee140157

Oh dear. Once again configuring reigns. We can on.y do so. Much to help you and it looks now like you could be told you are too late to appeal. You only have 28 days and this might not get there in time.

Can you email the appeal to make absolutely sure it gets there on time?
Do make sure you send first class with free proof of posting if not. And make sure you get in the post before midday to stand a chance of getting there by day 28. Talk about cutting it fine.

jubug

Hi guys (Coupon mad and Dee 140757)

I am pleased to report that you have both helped me get the PCN cancelled. My husband's friend, (band mate), as they both play in a classic rock band in their spare time, also received the same letter having consulted his Trades Union and sent what I consider to be a weaker letter than the one you recommended I send.

The response they both got was as follow:

'After review of your parking charge detailed above we have decided to cancel. This is a one time gesture of goodwill and will not be repeated on future occasions. Please be assured this matter is now closed on our systems'.

Despite being admonished by both of you for leaving the appeal till the eleventh hour, I followed your instructions to the letter and went to the post office first thing and obtained a certificate of posting.

Once again - a huge thank you

Coupon-mad

Well done! We were just upset you may have grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory - but you didn't!