Not quite a car, but the principle's the same

CrazyRed

I THINK I know the answer to this, but would like some informed opinion please before I stomp in with my size 10's and make the situation worse....

(Apologies in advance for the length of this message but I wanted to give a full picture)

My MIL has a 7.5ton horsebox, based on a Leyland DAF45.130 7.5ton lorry - it's old, but perfectly serviceable and in fair condition for it's year. We suspect it's previous life, prior to conversion, was with the Post Office because the mileage was fairly hefty (360k km) and the bits that weren't painted as part of the conversion are definitely Post Office Red!

She's had a few problems with it, as one would expect with a vehicle of that age and mileage and up to now these have been repaired without much issue.

It broke down over Easter with suspected clutch failure (thankfully, no animals on board - it was empty) but for financial reasons it sat in the yard until we'd got some pennies together to get it towed to a workshop and looked at. (Cars, I can repair for the most part. Lorries are a bit bigger and all the components heavier, thus I felt it was outside of my comfort zone to replace the clutch - hence the trip to a workshop that she'd used in the past).

Clutch failure was confirmed and an initial price in the area of £650 quoted for supply and fit. During the course of this repair, the garage phoned her and told her that the clutch operating arm was bent and required replacement (another £300) and, in the mechanic's opinion the flywheel looked a bit 'iffy' - when pressed for his opinion as to whether it should be changed (bear in mind it was quoted at £700 for the part alone) his reply was that "if it was mine, I'd live with it". On that basis, his advice was taken and the full clutch and the operating lever changed - the bill was still a fairly significant £950 - cash.

The lorry has been driven by just two people - my MIL (mainly) and me. Neither of us are numpties (she's a qualified HGV1 driver and I'm an ex-courier who has driven quite a few 7.5 tonners in the past). Last Sunday she asked me to look at the lorry as she thought the clutch 'felt a bit funny' when she went locally to help out some friends with moving their horses. By this time, the lorry's been to Peterborough once (loaded) and Stow-on-The-Wold (empty), plus this local run - it's covered 500 miles, tops since the clutch replacement.

Felt a bit funny is quite an understatement. The clutch was biting at the very top of the pedal. Clearly something was amiss, so on Monday we phoned the garage and spoke with them.

Usual teeth-sucking and 'that must be your flywheel, guv - we did tell you it was dodgy' - but when tackled with their own comments (as above) regarding the flywheel it was a very fast back-tracking and we were asked to take it back to them for investigation.

This morning, the lorry's been nursed back to the workshop who, despite initially thinking that it was just a matter of bleeding the clutch, have confirmed, once more, that the clutch has virtually failed - but they "wouldn't be 100% certain until the gearbox is off".

(I did notice this morning that the clutch started to slip when pulling uphill, and then juddered quite badly after the slipping incident, but settled down once I got onto the fast A-road to take it back to the workshop. Yes, I did take steps to prevent the clutch from continuing to slip).

The workshop are suggesting that another new clutch will be required and said clutch should be for her account..........

After 500 miles? Not a hope. I've covered a lot of miles in my driving career, as has she, and neither of us have ever heard of clutch failure after such little mileage therefore I'm mentally gearing up for a battle with them (I will add that there is another, unconnected, issue with the lorry that we asked them to look at at the same time - they've told us what's wrong there and given a price, which has been accepted and the go-ahead given)

As far as I can work out, this transaction would be covered under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act as it was business-to-consumer. Under said Act, goods must be of merchantable quality and last a reasonable amount of time - 500 miles is not a reasonable time for a clutch to last in my opinion. My plan is, should they start getting funny about this, is to have a word with our local TS and then have a word with the garage principal along the lines of SOGA and suggest that the only two things that could cause this fault after such a short mileage is faulty parts or faulty workmanship - both of which THEY provided!

Could one of you vehicle gurus advise, please? I've never, ever, heard of clutch failure to such an extent after such a short mileage - especially considering the chunk of that mileage was motorway, and thus in 5th gear with feet well away from the clutch pedal. Am I right to start getting annoyed on her behalf (she'd just pay for another clutch just to get the lorry fixed - this is me putting my foot down with a firm hand and telling her to keep what little money she's got in her pocket), and is my approach, as above, the right way to go if the workshop decide they're not going to see sense?

Thanks in advance.

colino

Lots of possibilities on an old horse box based on a vehicle that already had a hard life. Could be it is something like a bad air leak caused when the clutch slave cylinder and pipe was disturbed at the change. Could be the slave cylinder was tired anyway and is giving up due to the new cutch cover. Could also be that it is a new problem, like oil leaking onto the clutch from the crank oil seal. What it's not is a high pedal caused by a slightly glazed flywheel.
Unfortunately unless they are going to carefully inspect the clutch arm throw (plenty of access) to make sure the hydraulics are working fine, it will have to be a gearbox out job again to investigate.
On a car, I would suspect cheap recon parts being used, but with the potential instant load put on a 7.5tonner, I doubt if even the biggest cowboy fitter would have done that with the labour involved in replacing it when he's caught out.

CrazyRed

Thanks for your reply. It's actually a combined hydraulic/air "clutch pack" on this vehicle - replaced roughly 2 years ago).

They've already said that they're going to remove the gearbox and check out the clutch - I would hope they'll do the decent thing if they find the clutch worn out (it certainly feels like it to drive) and replace it at no cost. Like you, I am certain it's not caused by the flywheel, and I told him so when we phoned on Monday.

I suppose, the only other thing I can do is wait until they've got the box out and then go down there and look at the parts for myself. Personally, I think they've fitted the wrong clutch (the friction disc diameter is the same for most of the 45 range, but the power handling capabilities are different) for the engine power and that's caused the failure.

No sign of any oil leaks round the bellhousing or under the gearbox - I did have a look before we took it back - although, of course, that's no guarantee.

SteveJW

Although hydraulicaly operated it does appear that some of these have an adjustable operating mechanism
If someone has adjusted the mechanism to allow for the bent operating arm and not readjusted when replacing the arm, this could account for the bite point being at the top of the travel. Although the clutch was engaged it is possible for the mechanism to be holding it partly off, the same as someone riding the pedal. Hence rapid wear
On the internet the same clutch kit is listed for the 120 - 160 bhp model at £210, so fitted at £650 is at the top end of what I would expect to pay. I do feel the cost of the arm at £300 is excessive, usually a five minute job whilst the gearbox is out
Good luck

Westmead_Fan

SteveJW wrote: »

On the internet the same clutch kit is listed for the 120 - 160 bhp model at £210, so fitted at £650 is at the top end of what I would expect to pay. I do feel the cost of the arm at £300 is excessive, usually a five minute job whilst the gearbox is out
Good luck

depends where the garage ordered the parts in from, possibly main dealer & if thats the case then you will pay heavy money.