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Debate House Prices
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The silver bullet to fix the housing market
Comments
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Call it what you want...
Well, you can call a cat a dog if you want, but that doesn't make a cat a dog. The average household size is the average number of people living in a household, and the occupancy rate is the percentage of houses that are occupied....and yes it hasn't fallen in the UK over the last decade as it did the 9 decades prior. It should have fallen ...
Why should it have fallen?...which means more homes should have been built. Instead we know have far more kidaults living with mum far more house shares and far more people letting rooms to strangers and far more sheds wirh beds....
I don't understand. If there were "far more kidaults living with mum, far more house shares, and far more people letting rooms" then the average household size should have increased.....I don't know about italy I've never checked but the spain figure is wrong or massively out of date. Their boom in housing builds meant the occupancy rate fell below 2 in spain.
The web source I quoted cites its data source as "UN-ECE data for 2000 to 2008. Other years extrapolated". Since Eurostat has the average household in Spain at 2.6 in 2012, it would seem that their 'extrapolation' wasn't that far off.
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=ilc_lvph01&lang=en...most comparable nation is France. Very similar population gdp population growth immigration etc etc they build about 3x as manyanew homes and already have a lower occupancy rate (ie more homes)....
Eurostat has the average household size in France at 2.3/2.2 and pretty stable over the past decade as well, so yes pretty much like the UK.....whats clear is that if the UK is to have the same occupancy rate as france or germany we would need millions more homes
Well yes, if household sizes in the UK were to fall you would need more houses. But it does not "need to fall" to achieve any particular objective.0 -
Well, you can call a cat a dog if you want, but that doesn't make a cat a dog. The average household size is the average number of people living in a household, and the occupancy rate is the percentage of houses that are occupied.
Why should it have fallen?
I don't understand. If there were "far more kidaults living with mum, far more house shares, and far more people letting rooms" then the average household size should have increased.
The web source I quoted cites its data source as "UN-ECE data for 2000 to 2008. Other years extrapolated". Since Eurostat has the average household in Spain at 2.6 in 2012, it would seem that their 'extrapolation' wasn't that far off.
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=ilc_lvph01&lang=en
Eurostat has the average household size in France at 2.3/2.2 and pretty stable over the past decade as well, so yes pretty much like the UK.
Well yes, if household sizes in the UK were to fall you would need more houses. But it does not "need to fall" to achieve any particular objective.
The situation with housing is that we are massively over provided to meet housing NEED.
As it clearly possible to 4 or more people to share most rooms we could clearly 'house' the population with far fewer properties.
However, if we look at want people WANT the matter is somewhat different.
It's becoming 'normal' for children to each have a room of their own.
Single people prefer to have a two bed house / flat.
People like to have a hobby room (or two).
People like to have holiday homes.
Population is increasing
As we become richer we can spend less of our income on food/clothes/heating and more on other things including most importantly housing.
As things are, people would LIKE to have a lower people to house ratio: to achieve that we need more houses.0 -
The situation with housing is that we are massively over provided to meet housing NEED.
As it clearly possible to 4 or more people to share most rooms we could clearly 'house' the population with far fewer properties.
However, if we look at want people WANT the matter is somewhat different.
....
One could, of course, say the same about almost anything.
....
It's becoming 'normal' for children to each have a room of their own.
Single people prefer to have a two bed house / flat.
People like to have a hobby room (or two).
People like to have holiday homes.
Population is increasing
As we become richer we can spend less of our income on food/clothes/heating and more on other things including most importantly housing.
As things are, people would LIKE to have a lower people to house ratio: to achieve that we need more houses.
Maybe they do and maybe they don't, but the average household size is not the same as the people to house ratio, neither should it be confused with the utilisation, or the under/over occupation of property.
A household is a person or a group of people who occupy a particular accommodation as their only or main residence. It's a clearly defined statistic. If there are two people living together then their household size is two. It remains at two, no matter how many holiday homes they own, or whether they live in a one bedroomed flat or a six bedroomed country mansion.
It's therefore perfectly possible for the average household size to remain constant, and yet for there to be an increase in demand for housing, because those households want more or bigger houses.
What I'm arguing for here is clarity in thought.0 -
One could, of course, say the same about almost anything.
Maybe they do and maybe they don't, but the average household size is not the same as the people to house ratio, neither should it be confused with the utilisation, or the under/over occupation of property.
A household is a person or a group of people who occupy a particular accommodation as their only or main residence. It's a clearly defined statistic. If there are two people living together then their household size is two. It remains at two, no matter how many holiday homes they own, or whether they live in a one bedroomed flat or a six bedroomed country mansion.
It's therefore perfectly possible for the average household size to remain constant, and yet for there to be an increase in demand for housing, because those households want more or bigger houses.
What I'm arguing for here is clarity in thought.
clarity of thought is always an excellent objective.
for the sake of clarity I am arguing that we need more houses to meet the wants of the people.0 -
clarity of thought is always an excellent objective.
for the sake of clarity I am arguing that we need more houses to meet the wants of the people.
I would not disagree with you. The fact that the UK population is projected to rise by another 9 million or so over the next 20 years would be reason enough to reach that conclusion, irrespective of any other factors involved.0 -
I would not disagree with you. The fact that the UK population is projected to rise by another 9 million or so over the next 20 years would be reason enough to reach that conclusion, irrespective of any other factors involved.
There will come a point where cost of housing will be too high above everything else and people will move away and not so many will move here.0 -
JamesSmith2000 wrote: »There will come a point where cost of housing will be too high above everything else and people will move away and not so many will move here.
unless, of course, we build more houses0 -
Or the banks will change the criteria for lending.... Such as Japan... Where inter-generational mortgages exist..... Extending further the suppression and entrapment of the people of this country.... Where we borrow to buy the home we live in, work our fingers to the bone until we die to pay some of it off, and then our children end up finishing off paying the mortgage....
Does something seem not quite right about this? Our governments have been standing idle allowing this crazy free market housing system to continue into a socially devisive mess which we are all now stuck in.Peace.0 -
TickersPlaysPop wrote: »Or the banks will change the criteria for lending.... Such as Japan... Where inter-generational mortgages exist..... Extending further the suppression and entrapment of the people of this country.... Where we borrow to buy the home we live in, work our fingers to the bone until we die to pay some of it off, and then our children end up finishing off paying the mortgage....
Does something seem not quite right about this? Our governments have been standing idle allowing this crazy free market housing system to continue into a socially devisive mess which we are all now stuck in.
you don't know a single person that works their figures to the bone
nor do you know a single person with an intergenerational mortgage0 -
TickersPlaysPop wrote: »Where we borrow to buy the home we live in, work our fingers to the bone until we die to pay some of it off, and then our children end up finishing off paying the mortgage....
Us hopeful FTBs should be kissing Carney's feet I guess. If there was no artificial cap on mortgages prices would have at least doubled this year. Noone does the maths they just want to borrow enough to outbid the next guy. And it was just out of the goodness of his heart, it's not like young people vote or engage in politics.0
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