Southeastern Railway £20 penalty fare unjustifed

urnes

Hello I would love to get some advice on my situation.

I traveled from one station to another at the first station I had 5 minutes to board my train but there was a long line for the ticket machine and office I asked a passing employee if I could buy a ticket from them and they asked me what train i wanted, I told them and they said I better run for it and i could pay on the train.

On the train the I told the inspecter where I wanted to go and I gave him a £50 note he said that is expired on April I said it didn't that was the John Houblon note ( I work in a bank) mine was a Matthew Boulton note as was legal tender after much tooing and throwing he said i should pay on arriving and on arriving there was plastic police who issued me with a penalty notice but still took my money to pay the train fare. There person I spoke to at the station didn't seem to want to know or care what should I do as I dont think this is fair

yorkie2

You could try appealing and fighting it, but if you work in a bank, you're likely to find that the time spent doing so isn't worth it, as it will cost you more in time than £20s worth!

What station was it?

urnes

Thank you for your reply.
Ha I wish I could just throw away money but I can't. I always pay for my tickets ( I collect them silly enough as it sounds) and wouldn't have got on the train without one but the member of staff said I could buy it on the train not going to trust anything southeastern say unless it is in writing now XD and I arrived at Canterbury

davenport151

I'm thinking maybe the guard did not want to or have the change for a fifty pound note. Not the best amount to buy your ticket with.

Owain_Moneysaver

If you work in a bank you should know that no Bank of England note is legal tender. Only small change up to limited amounts and pound coins of any value.

However the question is whether the station you boarded at is within a Penalty Fare area for Southeastern trains and if all the signage complied with the PF regulations.

dzug1

Legal tender implies the exact amount - no change given

duchy

If you work in a bank then you are presumably fully aware of the difficulties fifty pound notes can present and you also presumably have a debit card. So could have used that to pay on the train. People often present large denomination notes in the hope the guard doesn't have change and can't be bothered and will let you off the fare. No doubt however he knew it was clampdown day at Canterbury.
You had two chances to pay once at your departure station either. By allowing enough time or by using the machine and also on the train. Whilst someone who works in a cash only industry like say a market trader might be able to make a case for why they had a fifty in their wallet but no debit or credit card......a bank clerk not so much.

I'd pay the fine before it increases if I were you.

wealdroam

Legal Tender only has relevance when paying court debts... something the OP may need to know more about shortly.

rdwarr

As stated above "Legal Tender" is completely meaningless here. It's clear that most people don't understand what the term means.

What is relevant are the accepted "Payment Methods" as stated on the National Rail website. I quote:

Bank Notes of the British Isles

The following bank notes may be accepted:
Bank notes issued by the Bank of England and bearing a portrait of Her Majesty the Queen;

So it appears that the passenger attempted to pay via a fully acceptable method and was denied the opportunity to do so on two occasions, first by the guard on the train and secondly by RPIs who intercepted him at his destination.

The chances of a successful appeal would therefore depend on whether the "man at the origin station said it would be OK" argument is accepted. While considering that, the powers that be may also wonder if a £50 note was really the only payment method the OP had.

Voyager2002

It is very clear: the OP had "authority to travel" and did as he was told. He should appeal, making it clear that he offered payment to the train manager and was instructed to pay on arrival. The railway will of course be able to identify the train manager: the only issue is whether what he says will confirm the OP's story. Rather than getting all self-righteous about the bank-note tendered, he should have been polite, making it more likely that his story will be confirmed.

SeanCo

Voyager2002 wrote: »

It is very clear: the OP had "authority to travel" and did as he was told. He should appeal, making it clear that he offered payment to the train manager and was instructed to pay on arrival. The railway will of course be able to identify the train manager: the only issue is whether what he says will confirm the OP's story. Rather than getting all self-righteous about the bank-note tendered, he should have been polite, making it more likely that his story will be confirmed.

I used to work for a train operator and what you have written is indeed correct. The only thing which makes me think a little bit is the fact that Southeastern conductors are issued with mobile ticket machines with a card facility. Surely it could have been paid that way to avoid the hassle?