Gross misconduct hearing - advice required please

lolly1969

Yeah, that's what I thought too, it might look suspicious if I resign but I just don't know how I can work for them after this. The strange thing is, they've not suspended me. The letter from HR makes no mention of this, which I thought it would, given the allegation.

I'm going to get a copy of my credit report for my own piece of mind and so that I can take steps to protect myself if someone has been using my details. I'm terrified to even look though.

Takeaway_Addict

lolly1969 wrote: »

Hi guys

Thanks for the replies.

I've had a look at that thread, just searched for 'gross misconduct'. The poster hasn't confirmed what happened in that case so I've PM'd them in the hope they can provide some help.

I've questioned everyone I can think of who may have done it, I've even approached the neighbour who apparantly signed for something but she wasn't letting on if she knew anything.

I just find it strange that with so many packages there's not one proper signature in the evidence. I've also googled some of the products ordered and some of the things they are saying were 'posted' would never fit through the letter box in a million years.

I have noted that most of the orders gave delivery instructions stating to 'leave items in the blue bin'. I'd never request this and would always ask for items to be left with a neighbour, so I'm wondering if whoever made the transactions is local and knows how easy it would be to gain access to my blue bin to pick parcels up.

I've also noted that two separate transactions were for dresses, the first one being ordered in a size 22 and then a week later another dress in a size 18!!! It must be the incredible shrinking woman!!! I want to know what diet she is on if she can go from a size 22 to 18 in a week.

There were also 7" heeled shoes, which were not in my size and I'd never be able to walk in as I have drop foot from the MS.

There is one item which was ordered which strangely enough, I have. However, the item I have was ordered from a different merchant in a separate transaction and I still have the invoice as proof, if I need it.

I'm tempted to resign, if this is how they treat their staff then I don't want to work for them. I'm not sure how this would look though or if it would even be accepted given the circumstances.

Ultimately, what they are alleging is a criminal offence and I am concerned about the consequences should they involve the police. I cannot afford to have any issues of this nature on my record, simply due to the fact that if I can't have my own children then I would look to get back into fostering or even adoption.

Everyone keeps telling me to try and forget about it because worrying will not change anything but it's just so hard.

I'm not sure how you would expect them to behave? They have reason to suspect misuse, they have investigated it, they have X evidence and now they are going to a disciplinary hearing where the outcome could be GM but it could as easily be no further action taken. They just cannot ignore what they have in front of them.

Gather your evidence up one point at a time to refute it, get your credit report yourself, and get teh information such as the clothes purchase are clearly not your size etc. Be prepared.

whitewing

Have there been any new transactions since you changed your card?

I would certainly look to speak to the police about something that may cost you your job.

mountainofdebt

tbh, if I was the investigating officer I wouldn't care what size clothes had been ordered; its wouldn't be the stuff of JK Rowling to order items for other people who may be a different size to you......I do it all the time for my mum

teabelly

Report it straight to the police yourself as fraud. Tell your employer you are disputing their claims that you did order any of it and you've reported it to the police/Action Fraud. This will force them to conduct a proper investigation and the retailers will have to provide proper evidence of who ordered what. Retailers will also have order information including the ip address of where it was ordered from including browser info etc which could help identify who or more importantly exclude you and your family entirely from being responsible.

Also if the blue bin is visible from a window install a web cam to record movement so you can see who is using it or someone is at home when they should be elsewhere. Logically it has to be someone nearby that can see when someone delivers to your house and then checks the blue bin when they know something is due to be delivered. It would be risky other wise to keep checking and popping into a neighbour's garden to see.

jackyann

Sympathies for all of this OP.
There is good advice here. My impression is that because of everything you are going through you are getting into a bit of a muddle, and I hope this thread brings some clarity.
Definitely contact your union's regional or head office - it will cause even more delay to wait for your local rep to come back & contact them. Don't give them a great deal of detail - they will ask for what they need to know.
Don't resign yet, do wait & see what happens.

You have a list of the transactions: write them out neatly, with careful refutations, keep it simple, no unnecessary detail. Eg: "not a dress / shoe size I would have ordered" or "not mine or my partner's signature"

As evidence of good character, simply say " x years' fostering, partner subject to regular CRB checks etc.". Too much detail can be confusing & misleading.

Do check as best you can that these have not been ordered by someone with access to your card & details. You can then state this, don't get upset at being asked this, as it has to be investigated.
I am sorry to say that many years ago, someone who had access to my house to water the plants whilst I was away, did commit a similar fraud, for a much smaller amount.

Don't be side-tracked by irrelevant detail - you may not like someone google-mapping your house, but the information is out there for anyone to use - so I wouldn't mention that.

Good luck, and please let us know (we don't know what happened to the poster previously mentioned)

rochja

You have just under 2 weeks to prepare for the hearing. In that time you need a fully briefed union rep. You also need to decide who to take to the hearing with you. Certainly if the police are progressing their own enquiries it is reasonable to ask that any disciplinary decision be suspended pending the outcome of those enquiries. The alternative for the company is to risk a much stronger wrongful dismissal claim should they find against you. Therefore you should ask for a proper criminal investigation. As it is the company that has suffered loss from the fraud ask them to report it. However, I see no reason why you could not report it as your reputation is damaged and your livelihood threatened by it. You will need to be able to defend the suggestion that similar patterns on a previous card indicate a history of fraudulent behaviour. There is no point investing too much time in playing detective as you do not have the tools to identify the person responsible. However, it is worth trying to work out what cloning opportunities somebody may have had immediately prior to the first transaction. Think home shopping parties, local shops and garages, holidays, times when you could not immediately find your purse etc. It occurs to me that all those credit searches could indicate that your identity has been cloned and someone may be having a high old time using credit you know nothing about until they default. So yes, get to the police asap

London18

If you need more time to prepare and organise a union rep or workplace colleague to accompany you, you can also ask for the hearing to be postponed by up to five working days (check you Company Disciplinary procedure as it might vary a bit).


As everyone else has said, do your own investigative work to refute each point as best you can.

I_Can_Haz_Job?

Very sorry to hear the horrible situation you're in xx

If it helps at all, I used to work in fraud prevention for an posh clothing retailer with online sales as well as shops. We used a piece of software called Salesforce that logged everything for all online transactions - it's highly likely at least some of the dodgy transactions have a decent audit trail if the sellers use similar. As soon as you report to the police and a case is opened they will probably get access to that sort of info. You wouldn't believe some of the stories that I've heard in that industry - everything from dodgy couriers flogging our parcel contents then claiming 'left item in recycling bin' when they hadn't, fraudsters ordering items to the victim's home, lying in wait for the postie and intercepting parcels, dodgy posties galore...all sorts! Ironically, even though I worked in fraud for nearly 14 years (I work for a charity now - much nicer!) I was a victim of card cloning! Even with all the tips I'd learned I still got scammed via a rigged ATM that copied my details. It can happen to anyone - believe me. I would get in touch with your union rep and have all your prep work done so you can fight your corner. It might be difficult to prove but can you remember where you were when some of the deliveries were made? If you can say you, your partner and son were at work/school at that time - and can prove it - the allegations that one of you signed for a package fall apart. Things like entry swipe card details, bus tickets, anything that can back you up. I like the CCTV idea further up the thread - you could be extra sneaky and mail yourself a dummy parcel or envelope that feels like a credit card is in it (just chuck a Costa loyalty card in, they'll be none the wiser) and then check if it shows up. If not, it's potentially proof someone is up to something and footage would nail it. Good luck with the hearing.

I hope things start looking up for you. xxx

Slinky

I recall seeing a programme on TV where somebody put up a CCTV camera only to discover their post box was regularly being opened by some thieving git following the postman down the lane (they lived out in the country). They had applied for a credit card in the victims name, were running up bills and intercepting them before the victim got to his post.