Stung by an autorenew with no warning

Skie_2

Hi there, looking for a bit of advice.

I noticed a charge for £60 on my natwest mastercard from easyspace. Turns out they (well, internetters who they bought out) have automatically renewed a .com domain that I no longer need.

Problem is they have renewed it 30 days before it was due to expire and provided me with no advanced notice. I'd never set the domain to autorenew either. All of the documentation about autorenew describes it as a service created when easyspace bought internetters, so how they think I enabled it god only knows.

I've asked them for a refund but got a stock response saying their T&C's say no refunds, domains set to autorenew are all they need to take the money and that they raised an invoice on their control panel 60 days before taking the money, so this is enough notice.

Natwest have been no help, other than letting me listen to the first 15 seconds of Agnus Dei over and over. Their response was "It's an autorenew service, all we can do is block them from taking anything in the future".

What can I do? It seems unfair to be able to automatically renew a contract without giving some warning. The domain itself was due to expire in July, so I dont think I'm asking much to have the extension cancelled and the money refunded.

wealdroam

Skie wrote: »

Hi there, looking for a bit of advice.

I noticed a charge for £60 on my natwest mastercard from easyspace. Turns out they (well, internetters who they bought out) have automatically renewed a .com domain that I no longer need.

Problem is they have renewed it 30 days before it was due to expire and provided me with no advanced notice. I'd never set the domain to autorenew either. All of the documentation about autorenew describes it as a service created when easyspace bought internetters, so how they think I enabled it god only knows.

I've asked them for a refund but got a stock response saying their T&C's say no refunds, domains set to autorenew are all they need to take the money and that they raised an invoice on their control panel 60 days before taking the money, so this is enough notice.

Natwest have been no help, other than letting me listen to the first 15 seconds of Agnus Dei over and over. Their response was "It's an autorenew service, all we can do is block them from taking anything in the future".

What can I do? It seems unfair to be able to automatically renew a contract without giving some warning. The domain itself was due to expire in July, so I dont think I'm asking much to have the extension cancelled and the money refunded.

You need to look at the T&Cs in place when you took out the contract.

It almost certainly states in there that auto renewal will take place unless you take some action to cancel the auto renewal.

Whilst perhaps a bit discourteous, there is no need for them to advise you nearer the renewal time unless the contract obliges them to do so.

Skie_2

I don't have the T&C's for when the domain was first registered, and handily the current ones say they can update them whenever they like and you have to keep checking their T&C's to spot any changes.

The current T&C's state that autorenewal will take place if you have enabled it. Problem is, I never enabled it. Of course, it's going to be difficult for me to prove I didn't do something!

DevCoder

When did you purchase your domain and was it from easy space or inter netters?

Skie_2

July 2004 and yes, internetters

DevCoder

So for example, inter netters current T&C's state

3.11 Any renewal of your Services with us is subject to our then current terms and conditions, including, but not limited to, payment of all applicable Service fees at the time of renewal and, in the case of renewal of a domain name registration, the registry administrator's acceptance of such renewal. Except with respect to Services to which you subscribe on a monthly basis, Services will by default be automatically renewed seven (7) days prior to expiration date. Alternatively, you may choose not to have Services automatically renewed. In those cases where you have opted out of automatically renewing Services, we will charge you a £3 administrative fee. Additional payment terms apply to certain services, as set forth in this Agreement

In Jan 2012 their t&c's still had this in.

I Jan 2007, its slightly different but its still they will auto renew but raise you an alert 60 days before

3.11 Any renewal of your Services with us is subject to our then current terms and conditions, including, but not limited to, payment of all applicable Service fees at the time of renewal and, in the case of renewal of a domain name registration, the registry administrator's acceptance of such renewal. Except with respect to Services to which you subscribe on a monthly basis, we will attempt to provide you a renewal reminder prior to the renewal of your Services at least sixty (60) days in advance of the renewal date. In the case of domain name registrations, we will attempt to send this reminder by email to the administrative contact on file for the domain name registration. Additional payment terms apply to certain services, as set forth in this Agreement.

You can check what the t&c's were for inter netters at given snapshot dates using waybackmachine

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.internetters.co.uk/terms.php

DevCoder

Hmm, well waybackmachine only goes back to 2007 but there is a clause in the earliest date there

3.10 Unless otherwise specified, each service is for an annual term, and unless otherwise specified at time of commencement of service, all services will incur an annual fee. Services will not renew automatically. It is your responsibility to renew or cancel services that you no longer require at the appropriate time. Appropriate notices will be provided.

Skie_2

I had never even thought to use the wayback machine! You are a star.

I'll try to quote the T&C's to them and see what they say. Not expecting them to budge based on seeing other people having similar problems, but at least it may give me more ammunition with Natwest.

wealdroam

Skie wrote: »

I don't have the T&C's for when the domain was first registered,

That's a shame.

Skie wrote: »

...and handily the current ones say they can update them whenever they like and you have to keep checking their T&C's to spot any changes.

Yes they do say that, but that may well be deemed an unfair contract term. In other words, they cannot arbitrarily change T&Cs without your knowledge, and if the changes adversely affect you, then you should be able to terminate the contract.

They also say that by renewing you are accepting the T&Cs applicable at that time.
Have you renewed before? If so, the terms applicable at that time of renewal are those you need to study.

Skie wrote: »

The current T&C's state that autorenewal will take place if you have enabled it.

They do not say that.

They actually say:

All services will renew automatically unless you opted out of the auto renew process.

So, because you have done nothing the auto renewal took place.

Their T&Cs go on to explain that the auto renewal will take place 30 days before the renewal date:

A number of attempts will be made to process the automated renewal of customer products and services. Auto Renewal attempt one will take place 30 days prior to expiration date of a service.

And as you mentioned in your original post, they did advise you via your control panel, so it is difficult to understand the title of your thread:

Stung by an autorenew with no warning

Skie wrote: »

Problem is, I never enabled it. Of course, it's going to be difficult for me to prove I didn't do something!

As mentioned above, you didn't need to enable auto renewal... it was already enabled.

Auto renewal is either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your point of view.
Imagine the situation where you are relying on the continual availability of your domain, but it suddenly disappears because you forgot to renew. Would you then be moaning because they didn't have an auto renewal process in place?

For reference, their T&Cs can be found here:

http://www.easyspace.com/terms-and-conditions

Skie_2

Internetters never had autorenew when the domain was first registered, only when easyspace acquired them did that become a thing. The control panel is still the internetters one, and the 'notice' is actually an invoice buried away in the past invoices section. There is an invoice there (the only one actually) for this payment. The only easyspace presence is a small banner on the front page saying they are partners and their name appears on the payment.

I've found the 2004 T&C's (htm rather than php) that would have applied when the domain was first registered where they state they will send reminders

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]11.3 Subject to using its reasonable endeavours to contact Customer prior to the domain name registration renewal date(s) at the e-mail address most recently provided by Customer pursuant to Clause 4.2.1, Internetters will have no involvement in, or responsibility for Customer's use or retention of a domain name once registered[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Though as you say if their ability to change the terms at will without communicating them is valid then I'd be bound by the 2012 ones.
[/FONT]

Skie_2

Just an update. I escalated it with internetters, who just fobbed me off with a final decision and quoted their current T&C's.

But I've put in a chargeback request as their July 2012 T&C's actually contain this (emphasis mine):

[FONT=&quot]3.11 Any renewal of your Services with us is subject to our then current terms and conditions, including, but not limited to, payment of all applicable Service fees at the time of renewal and, in the case of renewal of a domain name registration, the registry administrator's acceptance of such renewal. Except with respect to Services to which you subscribe on a monthly basis, Services will by default be automatically renewed seven (7) days prior to expiration date. Alternatively, you may choose not to have Services automatically renewed. In those cases where you have opted out of automatically renewing Services, we will charge you a £3 administrative fee. Additional payment terms apply to certain services, as set forth in this Agreement.[/FONT]

So by renewing 30 days before and not 7 days before, they have effectively breached their own terms and conditions. I dont think anyone can look at that and then say I'm bound by their current terms via the auto renewal.

Shall see if the bank agrees!