Wrong notice to keeper, any advice please

nat71985

Hi I've read all the newbie thread but would please like some advice:

My mum and registered keeper parked her car and failed to display here badge which was wrong but a genuine mistake as a result of memory loss due to a recent stroke. Anyway I wrote to UKPC on her behalf (she has aphasia due to stroke) stating I was writing on behalf of registered keeper. They rejected the appeal and answered all my points of law but offered me a £15 reduction within 14 days but no mention of POPPLA or code.

I didn't pay but also didn't respond stating no POPPLA code. I then received a letter from them stating that they had "reasonable cause to obtain your details as you were the registered keeper" They are now claiming I'm the registered keeper not my mum!!! ....which is a lie as DVLA clearly didn't tell them this as it's not true. I'm being hounded by so called debt recovery companies for the money as the "registered keeper".

I've sent a letter to zenith collections to leave me alone and refer back to your client and I'm ready to post one UKPC asking for a late POPPLA code but basically do I appeal on my initial argument or the fact that I'm not the registered keeper or the driver of the car when the notice was issued and they are clearly being untruthful and want the money off anyone??


Sorry it's very longwinded I just wanted you to have the full picture. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

Redx

I would look at claiming back under the EA201 for starters (threats anyway to all of them , landowner , parking company and debt collectors too)

I would also complain to the BPA AOS team as you were dealing with this on behalf of the RK who is disabled and that their rejection contained no popla code which is a breach of the BPA CoP , and definitely to the DVLA due to this V5C RK discrepancy you mentioned , as clearly POFA 2012 only applies if you were the RK

the poiint about this badge business is that its not relevant under the EA 2012 , she is clearly a protected person under the act and so these companies have to make reasonable adjustments for those people , and that is not just those who have a blue badge

not displaying the BB doesnt suddenly make this person fit and well , as if by magic , nor is it a requirement under the EA 2010 either

this has been extensively discussed on here and was used against meadowhall where the disabled person did not even own a BB but was clearly protected by the EA 2010 , other cases there and elsewhere involved trubster too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4889645

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4967884

a UKPC one here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4955757

EA2010 one here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4889258

the lack of a popla code isnt relevant to this BB issue but the BPA CoP is , hence why you complain about this to the BPA (but also the dvla as they ultimately gave out details , which is bad if those details are incorrect , could be illegal under the DPA too)

if you are not the RK and never were then your appeal to the PPC uses the template appeal and should also mention you are neither the RK nor the driver and for them to call the dogs off (the debt collectors)

so definitely a complaint to the BPA about this popla code not being given after the initial appeal (a typical trick by these companies as seen on BBC watchdog recently)

a complaint to the dvla too due to ukpc treating you as the rk and mention this persons protected status under the EA2010

a debt denied and mention a counter claim under the EA 2010 to the DC

same complaint to UKPC but also mention claiming under the EA 2010 and also yoiur BPA and DVLA complaints too (as you are not the RK , the RK is the person protected under the EA 2010)

a letter to the landowner or retailer complaining about harassment and a counter claim under the EA 2010

look at issuing a claim in the small claims court under the EA 2010 , with an LBC issued to each party and the threat of it first (typically for £500)

bazster

Frankly I'd ignore them unless you want to go to town on the Equality Act side of things, but it's your Mum who needs to do that (although obviously you can do the donkey work if she's willing to go along with it). Getting the letters coming to you is surely better than them going to your Mum?

UKPC don't do court but it'd be hilarious if they tried to sue you as the registered keeper.

nat71985

Redx wrote: »

the poiint about this badge business is that its not relevant under the EA 2012 , she is clearly a protected person under the act and so these companies have to make reasonable adjustments for those people , and that is not just those who have a blue badge

not displaying the BB doesnt suddenly make this person fit and well , as if by magic , nor is it a requirement under the EA 2010 either

this has been extensively discussed on here and was used against meadowhall where the disabled person did not even own a BB but was clearly protected by the EA 2010 , other cases there and elsewhere involved trubster too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4889645

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4967884

a UKPC one here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4955757

EA2010 one here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4889258 /QUOTE]

Thanks I will try the other things you have mentioned, thank you.

One point about the EA2010 I tried this in my initial appeal and was rejected....I'm not sure how I can post a copy of the letter on here but they said they "are aware of their responsibility to provide reasonable adjustments to disabled motorists .....however we have[n't] discriminated against your mother or any other motorist"

They then go on to talk about disabled motoring UK being in favour of them issuing charges to disabled motorists.

Therefore if I write to them again shall I just reiterate that point again?

Redx

I would also highlight this letter with the BPA AOS investigations side as they are told under the CoP of the BPA not to harass people with a BB , never mind its breaking the EA 2010

maybe an LBC under the EA 2010 would make them take notice

the more letters of complaint you fire off , the better , even one to the local MP too , or the press etc

fire a few off , see what happens , espcially to the BPA as I see 2 clear breaches of the BPA CoP here , never mind breaking the law under the EA 2010

maybe coupon-mad or lazydaisy will have some input on this despicable saga too ?

nat71985

bazster wrote: »

Frankly I'd ignore them unless you want to go to town on the Equality Act side of things, but it's your Mum who needs to do that (although obviously you can do the donkey work if she's willing to go along with it). Getting the letters coming to you is surely better than them going to your Mum?

UKPC don't do court but it'd be hilarious if they tried to sue you as the registered keeper.

Well I know that's what I thought! The thing is we live at the same address so she's usually there when I open them but it's not just that I have a chronic illness and use a wheelchair as a result so could really do without the hassle myself!

With parking and benefits all I'm doing at the minute is writing letters!!! Lol

Thanks for your help any advice is always appreciated

nat71985

Redx wrote: »

I would also highlight this letter with the BPA AOS investigations side as they are told under the CoP of the BPA not to harass people with a BB , never mind its breaking the EA 2010

maybe an LBC under the EA 2010 would make them take notice

the more letters of complaint you fire off , the better , even one to the local MP too , or the press etc

fire a few off , see what happens , espcially to the BPA as I see 2 clear breaches of the BPA CoP here , never mind breaking the law under the EA 2010

maybe coupon-mad or lazydaisy will have some input on this despicable saga too ?

Thanks for all your help its very much appreciated, I'll get typing away and let you know how I get on.

ColliesCarer

Hi Nat,

You are neither the keeper nor the driver and are being harassed by these companies.

It sounds to me like you personally may also qualify as a person with protected characteristics under the rules of EA 2010 which defines disability as:

"You're disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities"

And if so you could also bring your own claim against the parking company for harassment under EA2010 in addition to the one the RK could bring.

That should put the wind up them - EA2010 claims x 2 for not less than £500 each

Coupon-mad

nat71985 wrote: »

Well I know that's what I thought! The thing is we live at the same address so she's usually there when I open them but it's not just that I have a chronic illness and use a wheelchair as a result so could really do without the hassle myself!
With parking and benefits all I'm doing at the minute is writing letters!!! Lol

Thanks for your help any advice is always appreciated

You and your Mum are both covered under the Equality Act 2010 disability protection and your Mum's memory loss is a disability issue too, very relevant:

My mum and registered keeper parked her car and failed to display here badge which was wrong but a genuine mistake as a result of memory loss due to a recent stroke.

It is discrimination to cause detriment to a disabled person and that includes still harassing them or their carers for money, when they have been informed about your Mum's medical condition and symptoms which in fact led to the Blue badge being forgotten that day.

This is like the case of Excel v Greenwood last October where the guy with MS (and memory problems as a result) was hounded to court by Excel Parking Services and the Judge said they should have cancelled the charge when they heard he was genuinely disabled and could use the bay. Your Mum's case is the same only your Mum's is from UKPC who don't do court, luckily.

You need to complain to all and sundry as the others have said. MP, the BPA, the DVLA, the landowner, the PPC again etc. The BPA should at least allow a POPLA code to be used because none was offered - but you will have to do the POPLA appeal in your Mum's name (NOT IN YOUR NAME ON HER BEHALF). POPLA can only be used by keepers and drivers.

bazster

nat71985 wrote: »

Well I know that's what I thought! The thing is we live at the same address so she's usually there when I open them but it's not just that I have a chronic illness and use a wheelchair as a result so could really do without the hassle myself!

With parking and benefits all I'm doing at the minute is writing letters!!! Lol

Thanks for your help any advice is always appreciated

All understood. But if you don't want any more hassle then, seriously, you can just ignore them, nothing will happen. We'd love you to batter them with the Equality Act 2010 but you don't have to, file-and-forget is perfectly workable if it fits your circumstances.

bazster

nat71985 wrote: »

One point about the EA2010 I tried this in my initial appeal and was rejected....I'm not sure how I can post a copy of the letter on here but they said they "are aware of their responsibility to provide reasonable adjustments to disabled motorists .....however we have[n't] discriminated against your mother or any other motorist"

Bollox. They and the landowner are systematically discriminating against persons with "protected characteristics" who happen not to have or not to display a Blue Badge. Not having or failing to display a Blue Badge does not alter the fact that they have "protected characteristics".

However, short of actually bringing a Money Claim Online against UKPC, for a minimum £500 as compensation for injured feelings arising from their discrimination, you will never get UKPC to admit this. Even a Letter Before County Court Claim will cut no ice with them, it'd have to be an actual claim, so if you're not willing to do this then there's no point in trying.

Landowners, however, can be much more sensitive and vulnerable. Do you know who the landowner is? Because an LBCCC to them could well be worthwhile.