interview with or?? and WHEN to go bankrupt?

mongoosio

Hi,

I know if will be difficult to answer my questions because "nobody can tell you to go bankrupt" etc etc but I HAVE made the decision to go bankrupt. There is no other way out of the situation that me and my partner are in but I am struggling with deciding WHEN is the best time to do it. Reasonably, financially I need to do this ASAP but my circumstances are due to change. Do I declare myself bankrupt before or after my circumstances change? Will the OR look at me unfavourable because my circumstances are changing?



My situation is this:

Me and my partner are in it up to our heads! We both work full time (at the moment) but I am due to go back to full time university in September for the first time since 2003/04. So, I will be sacrificing a full time wage of approx £18k in return for a student loan of approx £4.5k. Will the OR deem this as irresponsible and avoiding my debts? Will I be expected to sacrifice going back to university so that I am earning more and able to pay more towards my BR?

Should I petition for my bankruptcy before September and tell the OR that my circumstances are due to change? Or should wait until September before declaring myself bankrupt. I realise that bankruptcy isn't a tactical game like perhaps I am making it sound. It really isn't like that. I am going back to university and trying to deal with my debt problems to make a better life for myself and my partner but will I be judged on taking a knowing drop in earnings? Do I need to justify myself to the OR in this way?

Also, we own our house. The thought of bailiffs and/or being made homeless is absolutely terrifying so in preparation for being made bankrupt we have saved up and put down a deposit on a new rented place. If our house is not sold by the time we go bankrupt what will happen to it? We will be moving out of our owned house next month and moving in to our rented property. Will our house just be immediately repossessed? Or will we still have to carry on paying out mortgage payments as well as rent until it is sold?

I have had most of my questions answered through various debt management companies, this forum and various other websites but these are the two questions that worry me the most that nobody can seem to help me with.

Sorry for bleating
x

NekoZombie

Hi M

welcome to the board. Have you actually taken any professional advice? I would suggest this is the first thing you do as you clearly have a couple of areas of concern. Try your local CAB, or you can contact the CCCS/ Payplan.

debtmonkey1

You seem to have it well covered & thought it through.

Ok....the house. If it is NOT sold prior to BR it does not matter. Any shortfall/arrears become UNSECURED debts & are included in the BR even if the house has not sold when you go BR. I'm still in my mortgaged house-& am giving keys back next week. OR at my meeting said 'it does not matter how long the house sale takes-it won't hold up any early discharge for you & any shortfall is included in the BR'. looking at the timescale even if a court TOMORROW gained an outright BR order on you you would still have 28 days before you have to leave. If no repo date/hearing/court docs have been sent to you already I'd relax-there's no way they'll be able to evict you by September.

I would move to your rented house BEFORE BR & also get student loan before BR.

The Official Receiver will not frown upon what you've done-you are trying to move forward with your life.

As for Bailiffs-don't forget they can ONLY be used once you've defaulted on a court order-& even then they can only enter by an unlocked window or door. DO NOT LET THEM IN-they can't force past you & have no right of entry.

Good luck-you'll feel SO much better when it's done!

mongoosio

debtmonkey1 wrote: »

You seem to have it well covered & thought it through.

Ok....the house. If it is NOT sold prior to BR it does not matter. Any shortfall/arrears become UNSECURED debts & are included in the BR even if the house has not sold when you go BR. I'm still in my mortgaged house-& am giving keys back next week. OR at my meeting said 'it does not matter how long the house sale takes-it won't hold up any early discharge for you & any shortfall is included in the BR'. looking at the timescale even if a court TOMORROW gained an outright BR order on you you would still have 28 days before you have to leave. If no repo date/hearing/court docs have been sent to you already I'd relax-there's no way they'll be able to evict you by September.

I would move to your rented house BEFORE BR & also get student loan before BR.

The Official Receiver will not frown upon what you've done-you are trying to move forward with your life.

As for Bailiffs-don't forget they can ONLY be used once you've defaulted on a court order-& even then they can only enter by an unlocked window or door. DO NOT LET THEM IN-they can't force past you & have no right of entry.

Good luck-you'll feel SO much better when it's done!

Thanks so much debtmonkey! Your post was really helpful and it's put me at ease a little. It's such a scary time, isn't it? I feel guilty looking forward to my bankruptcy but can't wait to have this weight lifted off my shoulders and move on with my life. I can safely say that I will never EVER dabble with credit again (with the exception of another mortgage in the FAR FAR future, if I can!)

The letters are coming through my door thick and fast - final notices, demands for payment in full etc. The agencies my creditors are using have refused my negotiations and I cannot afford to pay in full. I need to go to the CAB to ask what I should do with my creditors between now and before going bankrupt. Do I carry on trying to negotiate payment with them or do I jus leave it?

Posthinking

IThe thought of it is scary but you'll be fine once its over. If you've definitely decided BR is for you, forget the creds.

mongoosio

Scary indeed.

So, I'm brainstorming right now in preparation for my SOA. I'm at a little bit of a loss as to how to put it. It will be both my parnter and I that are making ourselves bankrupt, not just myself. Some of our debts are joint (mortgage and a couple of unsercured loans) the rest is "individual" but we pay them all jointly. So, do we do two seperate SOA's, or do we do a joint one? (Sorry if this questions is silly!!)

Also - as mentioned before, I am going back to university in September. So obviously, my earnings now will stop as of September and I will just have a student loan of about £4k a year. So, if I was to file for bankruptcy before I go back to university in September and the OR finds that I have money left over and I am given a high IPA what will happen in September when money situation drastically changes and I definately won't have any money left over at all?

fermi

Bankruptcy is a thing that an individual undergoes, so you must each complete a separate petition and 'Statement of Affairs' - forms 6.27 and 6.28.

Joint debts should be included on both sets and marked as joint.

The summary of your financial affairs included must reflect your position at the date of the bankruptcy order.
However there will be several pages attached to the forms where you can provide the additional information that your circumstance's are going to change. Make sure you are clear about the when/why/what of the changes so the OR knows the full picture.

You should also have an opportunity to explain your situation during your interview.

It is therefore unlikely that the OR would set up an IPA based upon your income, as long as you make them aware of the impending change of circumstances. You should also be aware that if one is imposed, an IPA can subsequently be revised downwards (even to nothing if your circumstances merit it). Either way, you will be fine.

mongoosio

fermi wrote: »

Bankruptcy is a thing that an individual undergoes, so you must each complete a separate petition and 'Statement of Affairs' - forms 6.27 and 6.28.

Joint debts should be included on both sets and marked as joint.

The summary of your financial affairs included must reflect your position at the date of the bankruptcy order.
However there will be several pages attached to the forms where you can provide the additional information that your circumstance's are going to change. Make sure you are clear about the when/why/what of the changes so the OR knows the full picture.

You should also have an opportunity to explain your situation during your interview.

It is therefore unlikely that the OR would set up an IPA based upon your income, as long as you make them aware of the impending change of circumstances. You should also be aware that if one is imposed, an IPA can subsequently be revised downwards (even to nothing if your circumstances merit it). Either way, you will be fine.

Thank you so much fermi! Your advice is fantastic! Just to clarify - you said "Either way, you will be fine." - do you mean "either way" as in - whether I declare myself bankrupt before or after I return to full time study?

Thanks again! I wish I had found this forum months earlier!!!

fermi

I really meant whether you initially get an IPA or not.

If you should be unlucky enough to get an IPA in your circumstances, when/if your income drops you can request for it to be reduced or even suspended to reflect that change. It can only last for 36 months from the date it starts under any circumstances.

I think that whether you go BR before or after you return to study you should be OK. Just do whichever is best for you, and make sure that you get professional advice at each stage.

mongoosio

fermi wrote: »

I really meant whether you initially get an IPA or not.

If you should be unlucky enough to get an IPA in your circumstances, when/if your income drops you can request for it to be reduced or even suspended to reflect that change. It can only last for 36 months from the date it starts under any circumstances.

I think that whether you go BR before or after you return to study you should be OK. Just do whichever is best for you, and make sure that you get professional advice at each stage.

lol, gotcha! Thanks.

I guess I'm just desperately looking for the answers that I want to hear! Thanks very much for the advice! I will seek professional advice I just want to be armed with as much info as possible.

Thanks again. Will let you know how I get on over the next few weeks/months.

debtmonkey1

As far as the creditors go just leave it! If any keep phoning-block the number or block all 'number withheld' calls. Failing that call them to say you consider it harrasment that they call you. Ignore all demands-especially any that say they are sending 'collecters' round-in 9 years (& beleive me with huge unsecured debts) ONE person came round-I jst ignored the door-you don;t have to answer it & they have no right of entry or even a right to speak to you!

I understand the emotive bit.....let me explain below!

I am a really really confident person. I sell on the phone for a living & certainly have no problem in communicating/negotiating, or dare I say it confronting people (5 years as a rep in Crete-coevering club 18-30 reps one day a week on their day off-seen it all & dealt with it all!)....BUT I do understand your feelings.Part of you feels guilt for looking forward to going/being BR (either conciously or unconciously there may be a bit of 'but it's so easy/is it fair that i do this? etc...mine was buried really really deep but no doubt it was there!) & about the process.Well the 'physical' (ie seeing OR & court) bit is easy! What i found hardest was accepting that I HAD to do it to make a fresh start at 41 (pride & all that!)...funny thing was I helped a friend through it 2 /12 years ago-she had £18k of debt (but on a very low income)-I had 6 times this (!)-so good at giving advice to others-not so good at taking it myself!As fermi says-just to be sure contact one of the debt charities in his (her?) signiture.As far as your circumstances go...if it was me I'd DEFFO get the student loan/move & THEN go BR. It makes the whole thing easier for the OR.As far as the OR meeting goes (& I'd guess as property is involved yours will be face-to-face-if they offer a phone interview my personal feeling is to ask to see them-bear in mind we're all human & if you are straight/helpfull to the OR & PROVIDE AS MUCH info as possible you will form a 'rapport' with them & clear up more than you can by phone-just my opinion) get all the info-exact dates of when credit was taken out/ammounts/default dates (get your credit file for this-only £2 by post-google experian or equifax).My meeting was 3 hours long BUT the OR actually said it was more than helpfull that I'd got so much info & that we'd met as we could clear up more than when doene by phone.As far as creditors go-IGNORE THEM! Block their numbers so they can't all, don't reply to any letters at all! Even if they send out a county court claim it's doubtfull it will get through in time & if it does it's written off in the BR.You've done the hard work now-deciding to do it-save the fees from what you would have paid on the mortgage & do the deed!I'm stressing now about having a 'hole' in my brain-the 'hole' being something to worry about re:debts-it ain't there no more! Once you've done the Courrt bit & the OR meeting you are FREE of debt-granted your credit file is fu***d for 6 year-so what???! BUT you can get a mortgage-allbeit 2% over base fairly soon after discharge so life goes on. Co-Op bank do a 'cashminder' a/c with visa electron card & for a tenner a pice you can buy a 'bread' pre-paid maestro card & a 'cashplus' mastercard (see my previous posts) which you 'load' like a mobile payg-so to the 'outsiders' in your social circle you'll have a 'gold' credit card (!!they won't know it's pre-paid!)-only thing missing is a cheque book!Feel free to post again or PM me-once it's done you'll feel great!