Work demanding Dr's note for 1 day off

Takeaway_Addict

I don't believe and I apologise if it has been done clarified whether this is for SSP or contractual sick pay. If it is the former I would expect that the employers policy is null and void but if it is the latter then they can assign whatever conditions they want to it.

Whether you test this condition through an employment tribunal if it is a disability is upto you but considering it is dealt with across the board I wouldn't fancy your friends chances....plus is he really going to bother for the sake of a days pay? I doubt it.

Poppie68

Noble_Savage wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification Poppie68.

I understand why they are asking for it, but if this condition is classed as a disability should the employer insist on making him pay for the sick note?

I don't think there is anything in the equality act that precludes anyone with a disability from private sick note charges, and as they are not discriminating against him due to his disability they can ask him to produce a sick note private or Med 3 at a cost to him..


It would be worth getting hold of one of the company employee handbooks.

Bantex_2

Noble_Savage wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification Poppie68.

I understand why they are asking for it, but if this condition is classed as a disability should the employer insist on making him pay for the sick note?

He could question why the doctor is charging him if he has a disability and the sick note is required.

Poppie68

Bantex wrote: »

He could question why the doctor is charging him if he has a disability and the sick note is required.

They charge because they are not covered by the NHS...being disabled does'nt mean you shouldn't be charged for services outside the NHS otherwise you could argue they should recieve private healthcare free.

Noble_Savage

I don't think it's the doctor charging that is the issue with my friend - yes, it's a private service and that's what the doctor charges.

I think the issue is more that his employer is insisting that he gets the note in the first place - despite being made aware of his condition and knowing that it'll mean odd days off.

It seems to him that if they're going to insist on it under these circumstances, refunding the cost would be a reasonable adjustment to make. He really would rather be at work!

Takeaway_Addict

Noble_Savage wrote: »

I don't think it's the doctor charging that is the issue with my friend - yes, it's a private service and that's what the doctor charges.

I think the issue is more that his employer is insisting that he gets the note in the first place - despite being made aware of his condition and knowing that it'll mean odd days off.

It seems to him that if they're going to insist on it under these circumstances, refunding the cost would be a reasonable adjustment to make. He really would rather be at work!

Please answer my question above, does your friend get contractual sick pay for sick days?

And the point on a reasonable adjustment, if the employer doesn't agree then you can only try to enforce through a tribunal which your friend is unlikely to do.

SeduLOUs

I worked in a GP practice and am fairly certain that we would not provide a back-dated sick note, private or otherwise, for a bout of illness that has since subsided and has no current symptoms, especially for an illness that only lasted one day.

Back-dated sick notes are generally a no-go, even if there are present symptoms, and the usual only exception to the rule is for patient who are a few days late because they were unable to get an appointment in time.

The employer is being ridiculous. Even with a private fee charge, this is yet another wasted GP appointment when the NHS is already at breaking point. I understand why they are doing it, but perhaps a policy of non-payment of sick pay for single day sickness absence directly before of after annual leave days would have the effect they are looking for without placing yet another unnecessary burden on the NHS.

If I were your friend, I would contact my GP reception to ask the question. There's a good chance they will refuse to issue the back dated note, regardless of whether there is a fee or who pays it. I don't know where this leaves you in regards to the employer, but a straight 'no' from the GP would have to stop the employer insisting on it. There is a possible backfire of this that they refuse to pay sick pay for the day in question, but this depends on how the policy is worded.

Perhaps you could suggest to the employer that they arrange and pay for a private medical examination and report about the ongoing illness (preferably from a non-NHS clinic) if they believe the sickness absence to be dubious.

Undervalued

Noble_Savage wrote: »

I don't think it's the doctor charging that is the issue with my friend - yes, it's a private service and that's what the doctor charges.

I think the issue is more that his employer is insisting that he gets the note in the first place - despite being made aware of his condition and knowing that it'll mean odd days off.

It seems to him that if they're going to insist on it under these circumstances, refunding the cost would be a reasonable adjustment to make. He really would rather be at work!

This is all getting a bit silly and circular!

If he is getting more than just SSP then the firm can attach pretty much whatever conditions they like. So, they can say they want a sick note for even one day if they so choose.

The doctor is quite entitled to charge. The firm may be willing to pay but they don't have to.

IF he has a disability (for employment law purposes) then that entitles him to reasonable adjustments. However, I not sure insisting on a doctor's note is actually unreasonable so that probably doesn't help. Reasonable adjustments don't generally go anything like as far as many people think. Also, a tribunal would expect less of a small company than huge organisation.

All he can do is explain the whole situation to whoever is empowered to decide and see if they will allow him more flexibility in the future.

Sorry, but those are the facts!

SeduLOUs

Undervalued wrote: »

IF he has a disability (for employment law purposes) then that entitles him to reasonable adjustments. However, I not sure insisting on a doctor's note is actually unreasonable so that probably doesn't help.

I would suggest that insisting on a doctor's note for a single day of absence is unreasonable.

It is absolutely not the norm to obtain a sick-note for a single day of absence. If all employers insisted on this then we wouldn't have an NHS as it would simply buckle under the number of appointments required for minor ailments that did not require any medical intervention.

I know at the practice I worked at, our standard response was to refuse back-dated sick notes or sick-notes for less than the normal number of waiting days and to provide patients with self-certification forms if required. Customer service dictates that some occasional exceptions may be made to the rule if a patient explained that their employer was being particularly difficult, but we certainly wouldn't be offering even privately charged appointments 'willy nilly' for this kind of thing, as those appointments are needed for the people who are ill.

On that basis, how can the contractual term be fair? If it is insisting on unnecessary paperwork from a third party, which is completely out of the employee's control as to whether they are able to obtain? Guidance given to GPs says that "You do not need to issue a fit note for the first seven calendar days of a patient’s sickness absence. Patients can self-certify for this period.", so I do not believe there is any obligation on a GP to provide a private note for less days, even if the patient is willing to pay.

Undervalued

SeduLOUs wrote: »

On that basis, how can the contractual term be fair? If it is insisting on unnecessary paperwork from a third party, which is completely out of the employee's control as to whether they are able to obtain? NHS GP practices are under no obligation to provide private services to their patients.

As far as SSP is concerned then I would agree with you.

However, if an employer also offers company sick pay then they can attach whatever terms they like.

It might be unreasonable to drastically change the terms for an existing employee but they can certainly attach strings to any new contract.

The vast majority of company sick pay schemes are "discretionary" so it is getting quite rare to have a hard and fast contractual entitlement in any case.