Speeding Cyclists

Nebulous2

007stuart wrote: »

Here's something else to ponder


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-27746410


except the cyclist died this time, now I don't know if speed was to blame here but certainly anything that leads to loss of life requires investigation.

So why are you quoting it if you don't know?

I find it quite offensive that you are prepared to use somebody's death to promote your own prejudices when it may well have no connection whatsoever.

redcard

007stuart wrote: »

I think cyclists should be restricted to a lower speed limit than motorised vehicles.

My reasoning for this to be brought in, is whilst bikes have become lighter and faster, the braking system on most cycles has remained unchanged for many years. I seriously doubt how able many of these cyclists travelling at excessive speed can stop safely, not only for themselves or for other road users especially pedestrians crossing roads.

I am sure this will provoke a vigorous discussion, but should we not look at all measures to reduce casualties that happen when speed is involved.

How many cyclists have died as a result of poor braking?

You having 'serious doubt' doesn't count for much unfortunately.

Enterprise_1701C

My brakes are very efficient.

I know this because of the amount of times I have had to stop when I car decides to pull out in front of me from a side road when I am on the main road. I wear a high vis jacket or tabard at all times.

I have even been forced to stop hard enough to break the brake cable, I stopped about an inch from the car, she had braked hard on seeing me (after pulling out) which was the wrong thing to do as if she had continued on with me braking as I was she would have been out of the way. She turned very white when she saw me.

So bikes can brake very quickly, especially when car drivers decide to pull out without seeing the cyclist in the high vis jacket cycling up the main road.

frisbeej

So from that article the statistics for 2009 are:


0 pedestrians killed by cyclists
426 killed by vehicles


Might be a bit of a challenge to reduce fatalities...

aleph_0

007stuart wrote: »

Here's something else to ponder

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-27746410

except the cyclist died this time, now I don't know if speed was to blame here but certainly anything that leads to loss of life requires investigation.

Absolutely. The attitude to safety on our roads is far too lax. I fully endorse your proposal to take RTCs more seriously, especially when there is a fatality. But that doesn't mean we should start distastefully start speculating on the cause of this women's death. I don't know why you would bring it up.
==

That Langton example is interesting. I don't know anything about the specific incident, but some relevant general comments.

The incident occurred at a junction. I think this is important, since the issue isn't necessarily the speed limit on the whole road, or anything cycle-specific. It's a junction with flared entrances, designed for vehicle speed, but also needs to be crossed by pedestrians walking towards the high street.

In terms of behaviour, all road users should drive so they can stop within the distance they can see. This should mean everyone takes the corner slowly.

In practice, we know people don't do this. The road could really be better designed so that the corners are sharper, and hence slower, and the crossing distance is smaller.

I really can't see any cycle-specific features to the incident above compared to what the same person might have done driving.

Elsewhere

Nebulous2 wrote: »

This is a very good example of the 'tribal mentality' referred to in the BBC news article linked in one of the posts above.

Nothing about how the accident happened. Maybe the pedestrian stepped off the pavement in front of the cyclist who didn't have time to stop?

Yet it is used to show that cyclists are going too fast.

The parish council warned the police?

I did not see the incident myself. I heard from friends that the woman was standing on the pavement at a bus stop.

Yes, the parish council warned the police about speeding cyclists - because of all the complaints that local people have made over the last year or two. I'm not talking about families out to take the air on their bikes, or folks on their way to work, but the idiots clad in Lycra who regard Dorset's back lanes as their own personal race track.

Here's a typical comment made on a local community forum about a cyclist in the same village. (October 2013)

"A couple of things that boiled my blood today. 1st at 1125 my wife was heading down Langton and pulled in by the church to allow a slow moving large vehicle to come up past her, at this point one of god chosen disciples ( a cyclist) thought he had the right to shoot pass us cut in front (us big old cars don't have paint work or need insurance do we?) and go down the rd causing the on coming van to swerve to avoid him. He was of course travelling at speed, this despite the big red warning sign at the top of the village. Again a cyclist who is above the law, and totally ignorant of other rd users"

I have witnessed such behaviour in the village myself. The High Street is on a long slope and cyclists whizz down it, weaving between the cars parked on either side- and as I said before, pedestrians do not hear them coming - bring back the bell on the handlebars!!!

Pedestrians' views may be blocked by cars or the bends in the narrow High Street in the village (as the cyclists' views of pedestrians may be blocked). The passing cars, buses etc go at a snail's pace most of the time because there is rarely room to pass - but of course the cyclists just nip through gaps even when they can't see what is holding up the traffic.

I am sure it's only a small proportion of cyclists who are so thoughtless but often that's all it takes to tar everyone with the same brush

aleph_0

Elsewhere wrote: »

I am sure it's only a small proportion of cyclists who are so thoughtless but often that's all it takes to tar everyone with the same brush

Only if people allow themselves to handle the brush. The problem is it's very easy for people to focus on things which fit with their prejudices.

A small proportion of all road users are idiots. That just means we need better enforcement in general, not that all road users are bad. Clearly there are some cycle-specific issues in your area - the fact that it provides a good fast route for leisure cyclists, and a lot of the things mentioned couldn't be done my motorists even if you want to.

I'm not sure if your obsession with bells is justified. Due to the aggressive incorrect use of car horns, it's been devalued. Pedestrians often take offence at a bell being used, it's much better to speak to someone, or remove the need. In your example, a cyclist at speed would want to be either slow or be sufficiently out from the parked cars so as to not be a risk to pedestrians stepping out (and at risk from pedestrians stepping out).

I've streetview'd your example, and would say that the road layout is designed for speed, at the expense of pedestrian safety. The Three Acre Lane/Coombe Hill corner bus stop is rubbish, for example. Of course, how to fix this is a local matter, but if I ruled the world the first priority would be pedestrian safety. Several pavements would get widened, probably a few give-way-to-oncoming-vehicles narrowings, maybe even reconsider it's status as a through road. Parking would only be allowed where safe.

Nebulous2

Elsewhere wrote: »

I am sure it's only a small proportion of cyclists who are so thoughtless but often that's all it takes to tar everyone with the same brush

I'm not going to pick apart the rest of the post. The language used in itself is enough to remove any credibility from their and your views for me- but this bit is what I really object to.

I've come to cycling seriously fairly late, after having driven hundreds of thousands of miles. Consequently I regard myself as traffic. I rarely use shared pathways, never mind pavements, preferring to stay on the road. I don't jump red lights.

So I don't get why people try to make me answerable for everything they have ever seen a cyclist do wrong. That is as sensible as me blaming you because someone who went to the same school as you abuses their husband.

Like all road users I'm responsible for my own behaviour and my own stopping distances, not that of others who happen to use the same form of transport.

I'm also much more vulnerable than people surrounded by two tons of steel though and the process of dealing with that has profound implications for road design and usage going forward.

brat

sdavies13 wrote: »

Speed limits for cyclists are unenforcable until a law comes in making speedometers compulsory for all cyclists!

I'll correct that for you. Speed limits do not apply to cyclists. They only apply to motor vehicles.

brat

Nebulous2 wrote: »

Elsewhere wrote: »

I am sure it's only a small proportion of cyclists who are so thoughtless but often that's all it takes to tar everyone with the same brush

I'm not going to pick apart the rest of the post. The language used in itself is enough to remove any credibility from their and your views for me- but this bit is what I really object to.

I've come to cycling seriously fairly late, after having driven hundreds of thousands of miles. Consequently I regard myself as traffic. I rarely use shared pathways, never mind pavements, preferring to stay on the road. I don't jump red lights.

So I don't get why people try to make me answerable for everything they have ever seen a cyclist do wrong. That is as sensible as me blaming you because someone who went to the same school as you abuses their husband.

Like all road users I'm responsible for my own behaviour and my own stopping distances, not that of others who happen to use the same form of transport.

I'm also much more vulnerable than people surrounded by two tons of steel though and the process of dealing with that has profound implications for road design and usage going forward.

Nicely said. This is a motorist looking for an excuse or reason to have a downer on all cyclists as though they were in some way responsible for each other. It's a prejudice that translates to real danger for cyclists.