Sent (and charged for) unwanted goods

pb147

I recently ordered some electronic goods from a company based in Germany. My order, which I paid for by credit card, consisted of three items. I ordered by website, well outside of their opening hours, and shortly after ordering, I e-mailed, apologising and asking for my order to be changed, clearly stating that I now only wanted one of these three items (the most expensive of the three). At this point, my the transaction had not been processed, and my card had not been charged.

The following morning, I received an e-mail telling me that they received my request before shipping, and that the two items I no longer wanted had been successfully cancelled. However, a mistake had been made and they had sent me two of the item I did want, and that this item must be reclaimed. Only after asking was I informed that I had been charged for both. This transaction on my card amounted to more than my initial 3-item order.

They told me that I would be refunded as soon as I had sent the item back. I informed them when the package had arrived, and they told me they would sent me postage labels and a collection would be arranged. This is an inconvenience in itself, as I don't have a printer to print the labels on. What aggravated me further, is they then told me I wouldn't be refunded until they had received the goods (presumably adding up to another week before I get my money back).

It is now 4 days since they overcharged my card, and over 48 hours since I was told I would be sent labels. The labels have still not been sent, and I'm getting increasingly annoyed by it all. My last e-mail to them reminded them money has been charged to my card which at no point have I authorised, to which I have received no reply.

Am I entitled under EU law to demand my money is refunded immediately? Furthermore, when refunded, am I even obliged to return this item? Had they refunded me straight away (or even refunded me to the surplus value exceeding my initial 3-item order), I'd have returned it without a second thought, but their conduct (including unapologetic and somewhat abrupt e-mails) is making me progressively less inclined to bail them out of what was their mistake.

Thanks!

SuperHan

You are obliged to return the item. It should not be at a significant inconvenience to yourself, though, but you should make the item available for collection.

Under DSR (which admittedly is a UK law) they have 30 days to refund. As this is what is implemented in this country, there won't be an EU law requiring a more timely refund, however, the EU may allow for longer, and the 30 day law may not apply in Germany - I'm not sure. I do know they have at least 30 days though.

OlliesDad

pb147 wrote: »

Am I entitled under EU law to demand my money is refunded immediately? Furthermore, when refunded, am I even obliged to return this item? Had they refunded me straight away (or even refunded me to the surplus value exceeding my initial 3-item order), I'd have returned it without a second thought, but their conduct (including unapologetic and somewhat abrupt e-mails) is making me progressively less inclined to bail them out of what was their mistake.

Thanks!

This last paragraph is why you will not get a refund prior to the goods being returned. Remember that while you may think they are being rude, in Germany this may be a typical response (more forthright).

pb147

Thanks for the responses.

SuperHan wrote: »

You are obliged to return the item. It should not be at a significant inconvenience to yourself, though, but you should make the item available for collection.

Under DSR (which admittedly is a UK law) they have 30 days to refund. As this is what is implemented in this country, there won't be an EU law requiring a more timely refund, however, the EU may allow for longer, and the 30 day law may not apply in Germany - I'm not sure. I do know they have at least 30 days though.

I could understand this- but since I was charged above even the value of my initial order the situation is different? I thought this would qualify as an unauthorised (illegal?) credit card transaction. Especially given that they had received my partial cancellation before packaging and shipping my order. I could understand the refund laws applying if I'd just been sent and charged for what I'd initially ordered, but not being charged even more for something I never asked for.

OlliesDad wrote: »

This last paragraph is why you will not get a refund prior to the goods being returned. Remember that while you may think they are being rude, in Germany this may be a typical response (more forthright).

I asked that because it had crossed my frustrated mind, since I really do need the money. When it comes down to it though, I'm pretty sure I'd send it back either way. But I highly doubt it's a cultural thing- this is a major European exporting retailer, whose dedicated customer service employees should know at least to say sorry for double-billing me. I've ordered regularly through two other German companies who have been a pleasure to deal with...

daytona0

pb147 wrote: »

I asked that because it had crossed my frustrated mind, since I really do need the money. When it comes down to it though, I'm pretty sure I'd send it back either way. But I highly doubt it's a cultural thing- this is a major European exporting retailer, whose dedicated customer service employees should know at least to say sorry for double-billing me. I've ordered regularly through two other German companies who have been a pleasure to deal with...

Can tell you've never lived outside o the UK haha.


Just to summarise though...

1. You placed an initial order or 3x items

I would suspect that they have T's and C's which state that once you do this then your order is accepted by them... In such an instance, why did you place an order if you didn't want them?

2. You emailed in to cancel the order. They responded and said that they would

There is a possibility that you have omitted or twisted that bit to suit your case. But assuming your info is correct, the seller has already accepted the order and it is sometimes not possible 4 them to respond and act on cancellation requests b4 dispatch... Maybe an agent tried to do it, thought they had put the request in time but actually turned out that they didn't get it done in time....


3. They have sent you stamp and want to arrange collection

I you don't have to pay a penny 4 the returns costs then consider that a really good hassle free resolution, which is actually demonstrative of a company who care about their customers


4. you want to keep the items to "punish them"


Tell you what, can I buy your TV, sofa and car for double the value? I'll simply cancel the order immediately, pay 4 one and keep the other two 4 free. Good deal?

daytona0

pb147 wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.



I could understand this- but since I was charged above even the value of my initial order the situation is different? I thought this would qualify as an unauthorised (illegal?) credit card transaction.

above the value? Can you clarify what this refers to? If they have done it illegally then contact the police.... Otherise there is something you're possibbly leaving out

You did place the order so you can't claim that being charged 4 the items was fraud

frugal_mike

daytona0 wrote: »

above the value? Can you clarify what this refers to? If they have done it illegally then contact the police.... Otherise there is something you're possibbly leaving out

You did place the order so you can't claim that being charged 4 the items was fraud

I think you misread what happened.

1) 3 different items were ordered
2) 2 of the items were cancelled
3) The company cancelled as requested, but made a mistake. They sent (and charged for) a duplicate of the item that the OP wanted. This duplicate item cost more than the combined cost of the 2 cancelled items, so the total money taken is now greater than the original order.

So as you say not fraud, just a mistake.

OP, make sure you get a receipt when handing the items to the courier. Once you have done that your duty of care will be over and they should refund you.

unholyangel

daytona0 wrote: »

above the value? Can you clarify what this refers to? If they have done it illegally then contact the police.... Otherise there is something you're possibbly leaving out

You did place the order so you can't claim that being charged 4 the items was fraud

He means his original order was for £100 (for example) for the 3 items in total. But despite cancelling two of the items, they have taken £120 (again, for example only).

OP, ultimately we're pretty good with UK law (generally anyway). What you need to do is read the t&c's of your contract and see what it says about governing law. If its english law, we'll be able to quote the appropriate legislation.

However if it is german law, we'll pretty much only be able to tell you what we can google.

How much was each item and how did you pay for it? Have you tried speaking to your bank?

daytona0

frugal_mike wrote: »

I think you misread what happened.

1) 3 different items were ordered
2) 2 of the items were cancelled
3) The company cancelled as requested, but made a mistake. They sent (and charged for) a duplicate of the item that the OP wanted. This duplicate item cost more than the combined cost of the 2 cancelled items, so the total money taken is now greater than the original order.

So as you say not fraud, just a mistake.

OP, make sure you get a receipt when handing the items to the courier. Once you have done that your duty of care will be over and they should refund you.

Ah right! Yep so just a mistake.

Get that sent back at the seller's expense and all is well with the world

pb147

daytona0 wrote: »

Can tell you've never lived outside o the UK haha.

Actually, I have.

daytona0 wrote: »

3. They have sent you stamp and want to arrange collection

I'm still waiting on those labels actually, going into the 3rd day since being promised them. When they do arrive, I'll have to go and find somewhere to print them…

daytona0 wrote: »

In such an instance, why did you place an order if you didn't want them?

This is a fair point. I did want them, but I realised later I shouldn't have bought them as I'm low on money this month. I hold my hands up and say that it was careless of me to make the order, but as has been pointed out, it's largely irrelevant as they were aware of the cancellation before billing my card. The irony of now being (temporarily) even more out of pocket than I would have been if I hadn't cancelled doesn't escape me, and the whole thing wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't really need that money.

Thanks frugal mike and unholy for explaining better than I did!

frugal_mike wrote: »

OP, make sure you get a receipt when handing the items to the courier. Once you have done that your duty of care will be over and they should refund you.

Although I was annoyed at first, I only started really complaining when they told me that apparently that's not even good enough, and that they won't refund me until they receive it back in Germany.

unholyangel wrote: »

He means his original order was for £100 (for example) for the 3 items in total. But despite cancelling two of the items, they have taken £120 (again, for example only).

OP, ultimately we're pretty good with UK law (generally anyway). What you need to do is read the t&c's of your contract and see what it says about governing law. If its english law, we'll be able to quote the appropriate legislation.

However if it is german law, we'll pretty much only be able to tell you what we can google.

How much was each item and how did you pay for it? Have you tried speaking to your bank?

Item A - 120eur < this is the one I was charged twice for
Item B - 45eur
Item C - 50 eur

The T&C refer to German Law, but I was (perhaps wrongly) under the impression that both UK and German distance selling laws would be in accordance with the same EU directives. I'm going to ring an EU consumer rights helpline as soon as they open on Monday to query this.

The policy they're throwing back at me is ultimately their reclamations policy which is really about customers returning goods they no longer want- only I never wanted the extra item I was sent and charged for.

It was paid for on credit card. I haven't spoken to the bank yet, but it could be worth a try if it drags on any longer. I'm sure if my card issuer can take action, that'd speed up the reclamation process considerably!

wealdroam

pb147 wrote: »

It was paid for on credit card. I haven't spoken to the bank yet, but it could be worth a try if it drags on any longer. I'm sure if my card issuer can take action, that'd speed up the reclamation process considerably!

I too am sure that your credit card issuer can take action, but I am not as confident as you seem to be that you will get your refund any quicker.