IVA? Be very wary!

longtermplanner

DorisTrousers wrote: »

Can't agree with that. The household income would have been the same, so the finance from the Government was never available regardless. The OP may have been able to help, or not, and I take your point that an IPA/IPA may have been finished by now, but that would have made no difference to whether his daughter would have received funding from the Government or whether she wouldn't, which a major thrust of his post.

Sorry, I haven't made my point clearly.

Yes she would not have been entitled to help from the governement, however other debt solutions would either have cleared the debts, leaving the poster more able to help his daughter, or would have been more flexible so he could choose to help his daughter even if this prolonged the debt clearenece timescale.

Only an IVA is both long and inflexible.

Richard_Carver

DorisTrousers wrote: »

The Government has nothing to do really with what you pay on an IVA, that is based upon your disposable income, as calculated by you and your provider.




Only you can answer of course, but to blame all your ills on the IVA process itself is probably a little unfair overall.

"The Government has nothing to do really with what you pay on an IVA, that is based upon your disposable income, as calculated by you and your provider."

Actually the Government set the guidelines/limits and categories for allowable expense with the IVA process. The expenses to feed, clothe and support a 20yr old child is NOT allowable, even though as a full-time student they receive no income benefits and the parents no get no child benefit support.

Fundamentally, all I'm saying is:

the Government do not make allowance for the lack of the parent’s disposal income when offering the student an adequate loan for University (they obviously expect the parents to fund the student). The student finance funding is calculated purely upon INCOME and NOT Outgoings/expenditure - even when the disposable income is officially set and monitored by legal process.

The same Government who fully expect us to fund/financially subsidise that same student do not make any allowances within the IVA financial agreements for said expected funding.

This fact may not be common knowledge.


The Result:

My daughter is 20 years old, an adult in her own right. Student finance will not offer her the same degree of loan facilities that they readily offer other 20 years old adults and this decision is not based upon her individual situation or credentials but upon her parents financial situation (who have nothing to do with the loan -- i.e. they are not guarantors or anything).

Consequently my daughter is not offered the same degree of finance that other students are and we cannot afford to subsidise her (because no allowance for that expenditure is recognised within the IVA process).

Because the Student Finance process only offer my daughter limited funding she is therefore excluded from the chance of a university education, whereas my tax money goes toward fully funding other peoples sons and daughters within university courses.

Am I bitter? You betcha!


I do not "blame all my ills on the IVA process" and I sorry I gave that impression.

I am just pointing out the facts that contribute to 'my ills' because it is handy knowledge to contribute to the forum... because it is not obvious until you suffer from such facts.

In truth my beef is more with the Student Finance system than the IVA system.

The Government Student Finance system does not offer equal opportunity (which is contradictory towards fundamental Governmental principles). Its is discriminatory to the point of illegality (if it were a private sector venture it would be prosecuted under law).

Richard_Carver

Tixy wrote: »

I don't know much about student loans but my understanding is that the tuitition loans are not related to the parents income - so presumably your daughter is eligible for a tutition loan.

The I believe that 65% of the maximum maintenance loan is available to everyone regardless of parents income - so presumably you daughter could borrow that? Or a bit more if your combined incomes are less than £62,500.

So the issue is just how to fund any living expenses she has above that level of loan?

Could she apply to a Uni near enough to home to commute and reduce living costs? could she work through the summer in temporary jobs to help fund her living costs? can she get a parttime job or 2 during term time to help fund her costs?
If she moves out from home will some of your costs reduce a bit (less groceries for example) that would mean you may be able to help her to some small degree?

Obviously money will be tight for her, but hopefully she shouldn't need to give up on her goal of a university education.

Our combined incomes are slightly more than £62,500

However, our house is in a negative equity situation on an interest only mortgage and the IVA leaves us scant disposable income and no credit facilities. We accept totally that.

But as a result of our combined income, my daughter is offered the minimum loan. It covers the cost of the course but there is only part cover for accommodation and nothing for living costs.

We cannot fund the shortfall. We've tried and looked at from all angles. I cannot tell how wretched this make me feel. My daughter is prejudiced by 'sins of the father'.

I am definitely upset that other students are much more adequately funded. My daughter is a 20 year adult in her own right and is not offered the same support as other 20 year adults. I am not racist nor a bigot but do support the principles of equal opportunity. My taxes pay towards the subsidy of other 20 year adults for the same university course that my 20 year old daughter is not offered the same degree of finance or adequate or equivalent finance to attend.

My government will readily fund non-UK citizens to a greater extent than they will my daughter. I will not lie, this has shaken the whole bias of my world. To be discriminated against by ones own Government, by ones own society, by ones own Country is a new sensation to me and one that has left me devastated.

lulu_92

My mum had an IVA and it never affected me or my sister when we applied for finance.

Anaheim

I don't understand how your daughter is being denied the change of a university education? It can be done, I know as I've done it twice now whilst being in an IVA.

Our daughter got her student loans for tuition fees and applied for and got a maintenance loan. She actually managed to get a small bursary as well. The overdraft on her student bank account remained untouched throughout her education but was there for emergencies only. She supplemented her income with a Saturday job and we used allowances from other areas to help her out. So we went without so that she wouldn't suffer.

I am living proof that your child can go to university whilst you are in an IVA

Even if we were not in an IVA we still wouldn't have got any additional help. We got ourselves into this mess and we are sorting ourselves out, we are the only ones to blame.

Can she apply for a university that she can travel to so therefore still live at home to reduce costs?

On another note we have boiler cover that is accounted for in our expenditure and we also took the decision to rent a washing machine prior to the IVA which is also covered, we argued the case at the original creditors meeting and it was added to our proposal
When our freezer decided to pack up we purchased a second hand one to see us through. Everything else we just hope and pray will last (but we only have a couple of payments left to make now)

I hope everything works out for you

Richard_Carver

DorisTrousers wrote: »

"I don't think that is a reasonable comment here. The poster plainly isn't right at the start of the IVA. Bankruptcy payments (if any) only last 3 years, so they would probably have been out of the way by the time his daughter went to uni. In a self managed DMP you could reduce your payments. And I suspect Stepchange would have been a lot more reasonable than whever the IVA company was..."


Can't agree with that. The household income would have been the same, so the finance from the Government was never available regardless. The OP may have been able to help, or not, and I take your point that an IPA/IPA may have been finished by now, but that would have made no difference to whether his daughter would have received funding from the Government or whether she wouldn't, which a major thrust of his post.

Sorry, my point is...

What do my finances actually have to do with my 20 year old adult daughter?

Shouldn't my 20 year adult daughter be treated the same as other 20 year old adults upon the basis of her individual status rather than that of her relations?

I don't want more or less for my daughter; just the same that others get. I am talking equal opportunity.

If I committed a crime and received a custodial sentence, would the Government require that my 20 year old adult daughter do the jail-time in respect of that crime?

Tixy

Your daughter is far from alone is being in the situation where her parents cannot or will not contibute to her living costs when at University but are still unable to get the maximum loan/grants.

It is not just students who have parents are in an IVA who are in her situation.

Richard_Carver wrote: »

We cannot fund the shortfall.

You may not be able to. But if it is her goal to go to Uni I think she could find a way to support herself for any shortfall. Be that using the suggestions from the earlier post or from considering a year out to work full time and build savings or looking for courses offering bursaries.

The difference in what maintenance loans/grants she is eligible for and what someone whose parents earned £30k is £3166 a year (assuming not in London but living away from home).

So what can she do to earn that equivalent? Its £60 a week - so a part time job working say 12 hours at £5.03 would be £60 a week. Once she is 21 then it would be equivalent to 10 hours per week.

Tixy

Richard_Carver wrote: »

Sorry, my point is...

What do my finances actually have to do with my 20 year old adult daughter?

That is a discussion that often debated.
But it isn't to do with your IVA, it is to do with how the goverment and student finance currently operate.

Richard_Carver

lulu_92 wrote: »

My mum had an IVA and it never affected me or my sister when we applied for finance.

Peoples situations differ.

It is possible that your Mother had a lower household income than us.

Despite this, due to the IVA, we (us and your mum) will probably be left with the same disposable income.


However, my daughter is offered the minimum Student Finance package.

She is not offered enough of a loan to cover accommodation or any living costs.

Was this the same for you and your sister?

Did your mother pay for 30% of your accommodation cost and fund ALL of your living costs?

If my daughter was offered the same financial package that you were given, then she would be able to enjoy the same privileges that Student Finance afforded to you and your sister.

DorisTrousers

"Actually the Government set the guidelines/limits and categories for allowable expense with the IVA process. The expenses to feed, clothe and support a 20yr old child is NOT allowable, even though as a full-time student they receive no income benefits and the parents no get no child benefit support."


Categorically wrong. The legislation that allows an IVA to exist is of course set by the powers that be, but the calculation of disposable income isn't. IVA payment is set by income minus reasonable and essential expenditure. The guidelines that creditor voting representatives, and therefore by logical extension IP's, use to achieve the disposable income figure are typically those set by CCCS/Stepchange debt charity.