Clarification "Date issued to RK, or date post recieved"?

anh1904

The NtK from G24 was "Issued" according to the PCN on the 15th day (30th May), but not received by us until yesterday, 4th June, some 5 calendar days later.
Reading the Newbie post, it mentions receiving it within 15 days, so if it gets to appeal stage, is this in our favour?

bazster

It's the date it was received by you. The law presumes it takes two working days to be delivered so if they dated it on the 15th day then this proves it was out-of-time.

arabesque_101

Yes it is in your favour. It will mean that G24 cannot claim keeper liability under POFA. Does G24's NTK to you mention POFA and making the keeper liable?

anh1904

Yes, POFA is mentioned.

Incident date, 16th May, Issue date (as printed on PCN, not proven) 30th May, receipt date 4th June.

arabesque_101

You just add it as a point to your POLA appeal that they are claiming against you under the provisions of POFA, but they have not themselves satisfied the requirements of POFA.

"If the Operator wants to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and has not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, the Operator's Notice to Keeper must meet the strict requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9). The notice to keeper was not received within the maximum 14 day period from the date of the alleged breach. Specifically, the alleged breach occurred on 16th May 2014, and the notice to keeper was received 19 days later on 4th June 2014. Even if the NTK was posted by the operator on the day it is dated (30th May 2014), the earliest it could have been delivered by ordinary post would have been Monday 2nd June, which is on the 17th day."

arabesque_101

One other thing, the 14 day limit only applies if there was no windscreen ticket issued.

bod1467

In which case (if there was a windscreen ticket) then POFA has still not been satisfied as the NtK was early.

anh1904

Many thanks all - I can confirm that there was no windscreen ticket, and that the £75 "invoice" will be appealed with the standard text in the first instane.

£75 for a brief over-stay in a free parking zone seems, to my untrained eye at least, a gross overstatement of any losses incurred.

ColliesCarer

anh1904 wrote: »

The NtK from G24 was "Issued" according to the PCN on the 15th day (30th May), but not received by us until yesterday, 4th June, some 5 calendar days later.
Reading the Newbie post, it mentions receiving it within 15 days, so if it gets to appeal stage, is this in our favour?

As well as being sent out of time, their NtK is probably not compliant with a number of other conditions that have to be met for the right to pursue the keeper to be established under POFA Schedule 4 paragraph 4, specifically the requirements of paragraph 9 - you can check it against the list for para 9 by following this link if you want to identify all the specific failings.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

In addition to being able to include this point in your POPLA appeal, as you have not already sent in your 1st stage appeal to G24 you can also add a fourth point to the template 1st appeal letter along the lines of

4. Your Notice to Keeper fails to meet the conditions required for POFA Schedule 4 paragraph 4 to apply and you, therefore, have no right to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

You could then bullet point the specific failings but no real need to at the 1st appeal stage - save that for POPLA

bod1467

Search this forum for G24 ... there's a specially-worded appeal (by Hot Bring as I recall) for G24 that has worked to get almost every PCN cancelled at appeal, without even needing to go to POPLA.

anh1904

The more discomfort, inconvenience and expense I can cost these leeches during the process of getting the PCN nullified, the less likely they are to survive and the less people will be inconvenienced by them in due course. It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but if everyone followed the advice, it seems that they'd be out of business in no time.