Section 21- few extra days

stejc

Hi

Looking for some advice on a section 21 notice we have been given by a landlord who I doubt will negotiate with us.

We have been given a section 21 notice for the end of this month after demanding it from our landlady who tried to initially get us to move out sooner than the required notice which caused some unpleasantness from the landlady. We also requested our deposit back which she gave us as it wasn't protected under a deposit scheme.

At the moment we are just waiting to exchange on a house and although solicitors and estate agents assure us completion will be done before we need to move out until we have exchanged contracts and have a date I don't want to take anything for granted.

If we do not move out on the day of the expiration then what powers does the landlady have? I can't imagine it being more than a few days after before we are able o move to our new house.

If she starts court action can we still be punished by the court even though we will have moved out long before it gets to court.

We will pay rent for any extra days we take and have no knowledge of the landlady reletting the house or even putting it on the market.

Any advice anyone can give?

HB58

You will be obliged to pay rent for the full month if you stay into another tenancy period - unless the LL agrees otherwise.

If the S21 was served before the deposit was returned it will be invalid. If valid notice has been served and you stay beyond that then the LL would have to instigate court procedings to get you evicted. As you say, you would probably be gone long before you got as far as court. If the LL did persist then the court might award some costs against you (I'm not sure if they would do so if the LL persisted in bringing the case after you had already vacated).

stejc

The notice was served before the deposit and then the deposit was returned after we pointed out it wasn't legal without the deposit protected. She at first put it into a scheme once we told her but we then got back to her again and told her that it should have been put in when then tenancy started.

However the only proof we have on when the deposit was received was when we cashed the cheque and signed a receipt to her to say we had it.

G_M

I'm assuming the S21 was served at end of March if it expires at end of this month, yes?

And you are on a Periodic (monthly) tenancy agreement?

Since you have the date the cheque was cashed and that was after the S21 was served, you'd have a strong case to argue the S21 is invalid.

the LL might claim you hung onto the cheqe before cashing it, but you would then ask her to produce the receipt you signed which would back up your claim.

As explained above, if the S21 were valid & you stay beyond the expiry date, you'd have to pay for another tenancy period (month?). Providing you had left before the cae came to court I doubt the court would award costs against you.

DaftyDuck

Just to strengthen G_Ms third paragraph, one could reason the return of the deposit at that point was a virtual admission deposit wasn't protected, so s21 would be invalid.

So, you should be able to serve your own one month notice at a time that suits you, so long as you are out before LLs re served two month notice expires.

stejc

Looked through the paperwork to check the dates. The notice was served on the 17th April with the expiry date of 27th June (end of calender month).

Cheque went into my bank on the 24th April and receipt was sent back to her recorded delivery on the 30th April.

Does the fact that the notice was served for the 27th June (more than 2 months after the money was returned) change anything?

G_M

stejc wrote: »

Looked through the paperwork to check the dates. The notice was served on the 17th April with the expiry date of 27th June (end of calender month).

Cheque went into my bank on the 24th April and receipt was sent back to her recorded delivery on the 30th April.

Does the fact that the notice was served for the 27th June (more than 2 months after the money was returned) change anything?

No. But you have not answered my earlier question: are you on a periodic/monthly tenancy?

If not, what date does your fixed term end?

If yes, what are the monthly periods (ie on what date did your original fixed term end, or if you've always been periodic, on what date did the tenancy start?)

Were you served a S21 1(b) or a S21 4(a)?

stejc

G_M wrote: »

No. But you have not answered my earlier question: are you on a periodic/monthly tenancy?

If not, what date does your fixed term end?

If yes, what are the monthly periods (ie on what date did your original fixed term end, or if you've always been periodic, on what date did the tenancy start?)

Were you served a S21 1(b) or a S21 4(a)?

It was fixed until 27th April 2014 and it was an S21 (b) that was served. Although initially she served an (a) by mistake.

franklee

My understanding is that you can move out at the end of the S21 notice period without giving your own notice. If you plan to stay beyond that date then you should serve your own one periods notice, expect to pay rent and retain the property for that period. Unless you can get agreement to go mid-period and pay rent pro-rata until your leaving date (in writing) from your landlady. I wouldn't serve notice until you have exchanged contracts on your purchase. You could ask for gap between exchange and completion if you don't want too big an overlap to have both properties.

If the landlord starts possession proceedings she will likely ask for costs (court fee, maybe solicitor's fee). You will have 14 days to defend the claim stating why the S21 isn't valid. That should defeat her claim for costs so I would put a defence in even if you are moving soon as otherwise you will automatically lose and the costs will likely go against you. It's not difficult to defend you will be given the form you just need to fill it in and send to the court.

Also you can sue for 1-3 x deposit for failure to protect the deposit in time and failure to serve the prescribed information if that applies as well.

franklee

stejc wrote: »

However the only proof we have on when the deposit was received was when we cashed the cheque and signed a receipt to her to say we had it.

Wasn't there a date on the cheque? Probably best to photograph or photocopy key cheques before cashing but I'm guessing you didn't?

ging84

the court cannot punish you for living in your home
they can only award cost against you