APCOA ticket in Travelodge

misbehavingexpert

Hi all,

Long-term user of the site, great stuff, not needed to post before!

Firstly, please note I HAVE read the NEWBIES sticky and I have also searched the forum for answers, but I've not found an example for my specific situation.

I parked in a Travelodge car park, run by Apcoa, where I've parked almost weekly for years. There are a number of 'non' spaces in there which every day get used, and occasionally get ticketed - it's the busiest car park I've ever encountered so people always park in them (and everyone knows). I parked in one of these (an alcove), completely not obstructing any use of the car park by the way, PAID, and returned later to find a 'parking enforcement notice' (£30/£60).

Obviously angry, I'm minded to wait for the NTK and send your template, but I'd like advice given:

1) I paid for parking - £7.50+20p fee by phone, so they have my mobile associated with reg number;

2) I (obviously) wasn't parked in a marked bay - the 'reason' for the notice (I realise it's not a reason, especially as I paid, but I found no examples of this on the forum);

3) The alcove where I parked is right next to one of the signs (making the signage argument null?);

4) Because of (1), they know I've (or my car/s has/have been) parked there tens, maybe over a hundred times;

5) I wasn't a hotel guest (car park is open to the public), so can't complain to the hotel (but can obviously threaten them with a bad review);

6) (please don't shout at me but) I've paid their charges before for the same car park - either for forgetting to purchase a ticket or the same reason as this; it's possible all these instances were for my old car, but it would still have been linked to the same mobile number.

Any/all advice very welcome.

I'd like not to be 'banned' from the car park (if they can even do that?) as I need to use it regularly.

Thanks,
Annoyed

Redx

buying a ticket is not relevant here , it will be where you parked that caused the issue (breaking their rules)

and any appeal to popla will not allow buying a ticket to be considered

so appeal in the usual manner , when you get the NTK

so

1) irrelevant

2) see my reply above

3) irrelevant , you were parked on private land and broke their "rules"

4) irrelevant

5) good point

6) irrelevant

misbehavingexpert

Okay, thanks.

I'm quite surprised I couldn't find an example of this car park on here, similar tickets are issued almost every day..

Are they able to 'ban' someone from using their car park? No cameras (I can see) or barrier.

Redx

I doubt it

as for travelodge and apcoa , there are several threads about "it"

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4766249

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4796621

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4777007

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4767864

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4524977

misbehavingexpert

Hi again,

The letter I received from APCOA was dated 16 July. I replied using the template from the newbies sticky verbatim on 5th August (I have proof of postage).

I haven't yet received a reply from APCOA.

When does the 28-day POPLA deadline start? Do I need to appeal to POPLA tomorrow (28 days from date of APCOA's letter)? Obviously, I don't yet have a POPLA appeal number or response to my 'soft' appeal.

Thanks again

Redx

you cannot appeal to popla until apcoa reject your appeal and give you a popla code in the rejection

the date the code is generated means it expires to popla 28 days after its generated

as you have nothing, you cannot do anything about it, certainly not with popla, as you are awaiting a reply from apcoa (should be within 35 days which you havent reached yet)

a lot of mail seems to "go missing" with apcoa, in which case you will get debt collectors chasing you , but you never know, they may actually find your appeal and reply, miracles have happened before

but my money is on debt collector letters

ps:- your deadline for an apcoa reply is mid-september going off your dates

Coupon-mad

misbehavingexpert wrote: »

When does the 28-day POPLA deadline start? Do I need to appeal to POPLA tomorrow (28 days from date of APCOA's letter)? Obviously, I don't yet have a POPLA appeal number or response to my 'soft' appeal.

First place I would have looked is the POPLA website with that question:

http://www.popla.org.uk/makinganappeal.htm

Just don't take any notice of the 4 appeal headings that POPLA mention was they mean nowt:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/secret-reasons-you-can-use-in-your.html


HTH

misbehavingexpert

Thanks all.

I received a reply as quoted below. I'll proceed to appeal to POPLA using the template unless advised otherwise.

Can I appeal to POPLA by e-mail or do I have to use the form provided by APCOA?

Notes (please recommend as to whether I should refer to any of these in my POPLA appeal):

1) They included no photographs of the signage, just a table reproducing words.

2) The bit (highlighted bold) where they say "... you agreed to the terms and conditions" (even though they have no reason to believe I was the driver).

3) No calculation of costs incurred provided.

4) The vehicle was not parked so as to cause an obstruction (evident in their own pictures of the car).

Letter content:

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued by us to you on [date]. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, we must advise your appeal has not been successful on this occasion.

We would like to take this opportunity to advise you that the terms and conditions of the car park state that vehicle [sic] must park in a designated bay and not be parked causing an obstruction, or they run the risk of receiving a notice.

As you can see from the photographic images provided your vehicle was photographed parked outside of a designated bay. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that they are familiar with the terms and conditions of parking before leaving their vehicle.

The terms and conditions, displayed in the car park, clearly state that vehicles must be parked in marked bays:


APCOA is not liable to justify the charge as set out in section 19.5 of the BPA guidelines, 'if the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on a genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operaters must be able to justify the amount in advance.'

As per the BPA guidelines we believe the parking charge is fair and reasonable at £60 reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days. The sum, and calculations which have been made in setting it, have been approved and agreed by the landowner.

It is well established that a contract can be made by offer, in the form of the terms and conditions set out on the notice and acceptance by parking a vehicle. If a motorist is unhappy with the contract terms, they should not remain in car park [sic]. By choosing to leave your vehicle in the car park you agreed to the terms and conditions and as such agreed to abide by the condition set out on clear signs at the entrance and throughout the car park.

Your vehicle [sic] was in breach of these terms and conditions by not parking in a designated parking area.

Notices on private land are issued in accordance to British Parking Association (BPA) guidelines and APCOA being an approved operator of BPA is authorised to issue notices on behalf of Travelodge.

As your vehicle was parked in contravention of the terms and conditions of the car park we are satisfied that the notice was correctly issued in accordance with the BPA code of practise [sic] and are not able to waiver the charge on this occasion.

Therefore you now have a number of options;
1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the price of £60.00. [methods]
2. Make an appeal to POPLA within 28 days of this letter - The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying form quoting reference number [number]
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Yours Faithfully

APCOA Appeals Department

Coupon-mad

misbehavingexpert wrote: »

Can I appeal to POPLA by e-mail or do I have to use the form provided by APCOA?

http://www.popla.org.uk/makinganappeal.htm

misbehavingexpert wrote: »

Notes (please recommend as to whether I should refer to any of these in my POPLA appeal):

1) They included no photographs of the signage, just a table reproducing words.

2) The bit (highlighted bold) where they say "... you agreed to the terms and conditions" (even though they have no reason to believe I was the driver).

3) No calculation of costs incurred provided.

4) The vehicle was not parked so as to cause an obstruction (evident in their own pictures of the car).

No none of the above is needed to be added to the template examples in 'How to win at POPLA' as linked in post #3 of the newbies thread. Just choose a recent example that says its suitable for any windscreen ticket case, and change the PPC to APCOA and the details a little, to suit the circs but without giving away who was driving if you add any sentences.

It's irrelevant to POPLA whether or not a car was causing an obstruction or not, and if APCOA do respond they'll send you and POPLA pics of the signage and their effort at a GPEOL calculation at that point. I seem to recall APCOA often just cancel when they see the appeal is a good one!

misbehavingexpert

Just reading the POPLA Decisions forum before making my appeal.

The currently penultimate post on there by bov247 (03/09/2014 19:57) relates to an allowed appeal based on a non-GPEOL because the issuer mainly cited costs after issuing the parking ticket, not initial loss. This paragraph from the Assessor refers:

I find that the operator has not provided evidence of an initial loss, which is a loss incurred prior to enforcement action being taken, such as the loss of the parking fee in the case of a pay and display car park where no ticket was purchased. Once such a loss is shown, losses flowing from it may be claimed, but without such a loss that is not the case.

On this basis, is there anything to be gained from emphasising (in my argument of a non-GPEOL) that the parking WAS paid for? I would think:
1) possibly not based on the grounds of their ticket being issued for a "not in a valid space" reason
2) no as it's mitigating circumstances (but no harm in mentioning..?)
2) no if it could be used to infer who's the driver..?
3) yes if it supports the argument by virtue of the above

Thoughts..?

Thanks all.

misbehavingexpert

4) and obviously, the parking amount paid is nowhere near the charge, meaning that they couldn't use it as GPEOL for the invoice.. right?