Choosing a state primary school

Make-it-3

So I’ve done some initial reading and wondering if anyone involved in education/teachers or parents who have been through this recently can help.

OFSTED reports – I’m somewhat confused as to how a school can go from being outstanding/good at one report to special measures by the next (there are four in my local area that this has happened to). The reports are also so dry it’s hard to get any sense of what a school is like.

So that leads me on to Open Days (we are in London and are supposed to put six choices on our application form). So how many schools would you organise to visit in order to get to a final six choices – 6, 8, 10, more? Should I be contacting them now before the summer term finishes to get appointments for Open Days in the Autumn?

I’m already feeling overwhelmed with the enormity of it all and that’s even before thinking about all the things we need to ask about at each school.

GobbledyGook

OFSTED reports are a snapshot of what they see when they come in. Massive changes can often be because of a change in Head Teacher - for example you have an excellent HT, school runs smoothly, staff stay in post for years. That HT retires, the new HT is a nightmare and you get children confused because rules have changed, staff turnover goes through the roof..... All of which can lead to a dramatically different scenario by the time OFSTED are back in (You also have to take into account how their gradings have changed - a school which was previous outstanding may now just be good despite the school not having changed at all!)

balletshoes

Do you or your child have any preferences for schools at the moment? i would certainly be finding out when the open evenings are for those and make arrangements to go.

in our area it was important to put your number 1 choice as 1st, 2nd as 2nd etc on your application.

ofsted is not the whole story of any school so ask why they have gone from good to special measures, the school shouldnt hide that and they should have processes in place to improve, so ask what those are and ask what ofsted have said since on their follow~up visits.

System

My wife is a teacher and she said it does not take a huge amount for a school to go from outstanding/good to special measures. Two real life examples from her colleagues/friends that have had this happen to their schools:


1) A successful head teacher from East London Rocks up to a school in a Berkshire village. Berks school is actually doing well already. This East London head teacher has spent years turning around difficult schools in deprived areas. Her tactics don't work in the Berks schools. She is eventually fired for eroding what was actually good about the school.


2) Head teacher decides to spend big on projects. He is going to do this by replacing every teacher that leaves with a newly qualified teacher. Soon the pool of teachers are inexperienced and things began to slip.


Usually a school doesn't go from outstanding/good to special measures and stay that way. This is because when you look at the factors involved, it still has the same catchment and the school itself would not have completely changed. If it is genuinely changed then it is not difficult to see/find this out through research.


OFSTED reports themselves are only an indicator. They are not consistent and the headline ratings of outstanding or good do not mean much as these terms are too general

Bonniepurple

Go and view the schools. What's your gut feeling? How do the staff (including head) interact with the children? My DDs school has 270 4-7 year olds, and yet the head and support staff know them - and their parents. They spend a great deal of time and effort making learning as fun for the children as they can. OFSTED is a snapshot, and schools can (and have been) failed on lower than expected exam results.

Once you've seen as many schools as you can, then you can work out which are outstanding/good/okay/bad for your child - and then put them down.

stampede

My wife worked at a school, where the HT changed but everyone else was the same.

It went from Good, to new HT arriving & Ofsted appeared within 2 weeks of arrival to satisfactory & then a few years later to Outstanding.

I think you need to get a feel for the school rather that just go on Ofsted reports as it all depends on how the HT big's up the school.
Obviously as a newly arriving HT, she didn't want the school to appear too good, & needed to show she could turn it around.

Even though the HT got outstanding Ofsted she destroyed the community feel for the school & lost over 30% pupils over a few years. The HT then left for bigger & better things, but was overall terrible at the job & motivating staff & getting parents onboard despite the good Ofsted.

maman

What's your child doing now? If s/he is at nursery or belongs to any local groups then talk to other parents. Many of them will have older siblings already at school and will give you a bit of inside information on what the school's really like.


League tables of test results at age 11 and Ofsted reports are a very rough indicator. It's a bit like football clubs. We all know that just because one team is at the top of the Premier league and another at the bottom it's not just about the quality of the manager and coaching staff. It will depend on what sort of players he has and how much money he has to spend.


So it's much the same with schools. Good headteachers and teachers will be able to get the best from their pupils and move them forward but they won't be able to compete with schools where pupils have private tutors and every advantage in terms of out of school experiences. All these pupils take the same tests so I don't need to tell you which come out on top.


In answer to your question I'd have said 3 or 4 schools should be enough but maybe you should have a long list and prioritise. That's what you'll need to do when you make an application. . You'll probably find the ones with the best results are in the best postcodes. If you don't live near enough to one then you may well not get a place even if you want to send your child there. So you need to start with looking at schools closest to where you live, talk to local parents and don't just consider the test results.

thorsoak

If you can manage to do it, I would suggest going past each school as pupils are going in or coming out - often just observing the interaction of children/teachers/parents at such times can be telling.

maman

thorsoak wrote: »

If you can manage to do it, I would suggest going past each school as pupils are going in or coming out - often just observing the interaction of children/teachers/parents at such times can be telling.

I thought of that myself but you do need to be careful not to seem to be lurking with intent outside schools.;)

Make-it-3

Should I just ignore OFSTED then?

The process is a bit silly as I doubt I am even in the catchment area for six schools that I have to list.

The problem is my nearest school is the most oversubscribed in the borough.

My DD goes to a pre-school that isn't very near our house and the kids there seem to come from a wide area and no-one near us - so not much help. A couple of the parents I have spoken to seem as confused as I at where to start.

So far, I've drawn a circle in a 2 mile radius from our house and got 19 schools on the list - how do I whittle that down without visiting all of them???

CH27

Start with the nearest & work outwards. Visit as many as you can & you will soon get a feel of what is right & what is wrong.