Parking Eye - Southampton Town Quays

2spicy

Ok, another Parking Eye post ...
Please can someone advise on what happens next ?

Ok, Popped into Town Quays Carpark about a month ago, for my wife to brestfeed our daughter as it seemed a quiet place to stop.
Remained in the car whilst Baby Spicy fed, with the engine running (for heaters).
after 30 minutes, wife decided she didnt want to go into Town Quay and asked if we could just go home as she wasnt feeling too good.

Skip forward 1 month, nice letter from Parking Eye and £100 fees to be paid, reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

Now, I am a company car driver, but the letter has found its way to me.
The ANPR log shows me entering and leaving the car park, with the time recorded as 32 minutes.

I am not going to pay £100 or even £60 as the time spent there is disproportionate to the amount of money on the notice, however I donot dispute the fact I did enter and leave the carpark and indeed spent 32 minutes there, so Im quite prepared to go to court and argue this matter.

There is signage, but who gets out of a car in the rain to read the small print ?

Ive submitted an online message to ParkingEye saying the above and telling them I wish to appeal.

My Questions.
1. Have I done this the correct way ?
2. When should I involve or threaten to involve POPlA?

Any guidance greatly recieved.

Spicy

Redx

as its a leased car then you want PE to deal with you and not the RK of the car

so yes you appeal , if they dont cancel they should give you a popla code

then appeal to popla

details in the NEWBIES sticky thread at the top of the forum

Dee140157

It sounds like you have already made your appeal to POPLA if you have gone online to do it. Did you identify yourself as driver? The right thing in this case. In which case expect a rejection soon. P.E. Don't do mitigating circumstances. If it wasn't the appeal, then follow newbie thread for appeal to P.E.

In the meanwhile read up on the POPLA appeal. They should send you a code with your rejection letter. Then appeal again using template from newbie thread. Remember it is the legal argument that wins, not the circumstances.

Coupon-mad

As long as you haven't already given the game away about who was driving(!!) just send the usual template in the NEWBIES thread to follow your initial email 'I've submitted an online message to ParkingEye saying the above and telling them I wish to appeal.'

Just change the first appeal template to start 'I am the usual keeper of this car and ...' (instead of I am the registered keeper).

And add a point #4 that the car stopped in readiness to go shopping but the passenger was taken ill after breastfeeding her baby and the driver then drove out straight away - so the actual time parked was negligible and covered by the Equality Act 2010. Under that Act, a nursing mother cannot be subject to any detriment relating to any matter to do with breastfeeding so you suggest they cancel the charge under the circumstances.

And add a point #5 that Southampton Town Quay car park has no keeper liability - due to byelaws prevailing. You know ParkingEye are aware of this issue following POPLA decision code 6060344057** specifically about Town Quay car park not being "Relevant Land". You intend to complain to the DVLA about ParkingEye continuing to send a standard Notice to Keeper letter which mentions the POFA 2012 when they know full well it's not applicable at that site. Therefore they had no business to write to the lease firm and suggest keeper liability was possible, and no business to write to you - the day-to-day keeper of this car (i.e. the keeper as defined in POFA 2012) - to allege same. As the driver will not be divulged they must cancel this charge.*


* that is, as long as your appeal to PE hasn't already given away who was driving?!!

** link here explains:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/popla-decree-parkingeye-are-incorrectly.html

And if I am right that they have mentioned 'keeper liability' to the lease firm and/or in your copy of the Notice (have they mentioned POFA 2012 and keeper liability?), send a copy of the offending wording to the BPA and the DVLA to complain that PE are continuing to allege keeper liability at a site where they know it is not relevant land, due to the proven existence of parking-related Port bylaws and in view of POPLA decision 6060344057 which already made a decision about this site weeks ago. The email addies for the DVLA and BPA are in post #6 of the same NEWBIES sticky thread which has the first appeal template in post #1.


HTH

2spicy

WOW !!
cheers for the advice and guidance. Im already going through the "newbie" readme's, and I really appreciate the feedback & additional information regarding Town Quays in Southampton.

I have identified myself as the driver, and I have submitted my appeal via ParkingEye's website. So now i'll wait for correspondence

I dont mind paying "if" im in the wrong, but intend to fight all the way until proven wrong.

Redx

even if you are in the "wrong" , that doesnt give them the right to charge you , or to make that charge £100 for example , or to assume their signs are correct according to the BPA CoP

if you didnt pay for a mars bar in tesco , is having your hand removed a reasonable "charge" ? , I think not

Dee140157

You need to change your mindset completely from " I don't mind paying if I'm in the wrong" to "How dare a PPC try to sting me for an unwarranted charge for a ridiculously large sum of money because my wife needed to feed our child and the was taken ill. "

These charges are unfair. Pure and simple.

2spicy

Thanks Dee140157, Ill do that

Coupon-mad

Ask the lease firm for a copy of the NTK they were sent, and look to see if PE allege POFA 2012 applies. If they allege that it does, or that the keeper is liable if they are not told who the driver was, then it's complaint time to the DVLA citing the important POPLA decision in this exact car park which made a finding of fact after consukting the bylaws wording specifically, that this is not 'relevant land'.

I know you've already said who was driving (a mistake but never mind, you'll know next time you get one of these!). But you still have grounds for serious complaint to the DVLA and BPA if PE are pretending they don't know it's not relevant land under POFA. You can argue they misled the lease firm.

2spicy

Just a quickie .... have received a second letter from ParkingEye, telling me that I have just 2 more days to make a payment of £60 before it increases to £100... :yawn:

Ive adapted the template & added points 4 and 5 as suggested above.

Can someone please have a quick glance before I print and send it

Many Thanks

---

Dear Parking Eye

PCN number XXXXXXXXX\XXXXXX


As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).


4) The vehicle was stopped in readiness to go shopping but the passenger was feeling unwell after breastfeeding her baby and the driver then drove out straight away - so the actual time parked was negligible and covered by the Equality Act 2010. Under this Act, a nursing mother cannot be subject to any detriment relating to any matter to do with breastfeeding.

5). According to my research, Southampton Town Quay car park has no keeper liability - due to byelaws prevailing.
It is my understanding that ParkingEye are aware of this issue following POPLA decision code 6060344057 specifically relating to Town Quay car park not being "Relevant Land".

It is my intention to further a complain to the DVLA regarding ParkingEye continuing to send a standard Notice to Keeper letter following this ruling.



[FONT=&quot]Take formal note:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.



Yours,

[/FONT]2Spicy

ColliesCarer

The letter looks fine
The only suggestion I would make is to put points 4 and 5 immediately after point 3 - followed by the remainder of the letter as currently stands

If posting - take to the post office and get a free certificate of posting
If using P E's on-line submission - the text box has a character limit that your letter will probably exceed but you can attach a file. I have submitted appeal to them before and I just entered something like "I wish to appeal against PCN no, xxxxxxx and have attached my appeal as file <filename>
Also take a screen shot - they don't send an acknowledgement email after submission.