PCN - first time advice please

Staarman

Hi, this is my first post and would appreciate some help here please.
I was with some friends and out of town to meet another friend. They were running late we were advised us to wait at a nearby retail park were we could use the Starbucks, McDonalds etc as it was early morning. As it turned out we waited 2 hours 40 mins before we were on our way. So 2 days ago a week after the event) I get a Parking charge notice from parking eye wanting £100 for going over the 2 hours permitted. I have read some other threads, but am unsure what to do next. I have no mitigating circumstances of health or disability issues, just ignorance in that none of us noticed the 2 hour limit. I assumed, like most retail parks, that it was free for customers. I cant go back to the retailer as we bought coffee/donughts etc early and some food later, all paid cash and receipts not kept and probably no more than £30-40 anyway. If the parking fine was reasonable, I would probably just pay up, but £100 is extortionate. I was going to appeal, should I use the template on the Newbie sticky (FIRST APPEAL TO THE PPC ) or the one on the main site with the blue and red text? The template include a comment that the signage is not prominent, I cannot verify this without doing a 80 mile round trip. Should I continue anyway, or pay up the reduced amount. If it goes to POPLA do I have a good case?
I have been a bit vague on detail, as I am sure these companies search these sites

Any advice much appreciated
Thanks

Guys_Dad

Use the Newbies thread for the standard appeal and the follow up POPLA appeal. Your initial appeal will fail, of course.

It is all very clear there. And what is this with the mitigation angle? Mitigation almost NEVER works and is not an appeal point at POPLA.

Stroma

Yes use the template in the newbies thread, don't use the mse one as its out of date. Send through their website and via the post office with a free proof of postage. Its not up to you figure out if the signs are compliant, its down to them to prove they are.

Once they reject your appeal, please come back here for help with popla, and yes you have a very good appeal. Make complaints to the service providers on site, and the landowner if you can find out who that is, google helps.

da_rule

Yes use the template you mention.

You don't have to verify anything, the appeals are written so that the burden of proving compliance falls on to the parking company, not on you.

The fact you have no mitigation is actually good, too many people get distracted with trying to justify what they did. This does not hold any water with POPLA. They are interested in legal arguments only, the most convincing being that the charge is actually a penalty (no genuine pre-estimate of loss - GPEOL) and therefore is unenforceable. The notice you've received is also probably defective.

In recent months, when confronted with a forum appeal (from the templates contained in post 3 of the Newbies sticky thread which you appear to have found) ParkingEye have not bothered to submit evidence to POPLA which is an easy win for you.

Coupon-mad

I was going to appeal, should I use the template on the Newbie sticky (FIRST APPEAL TO THE PPC )

YEP.

or the one on the main site with the blue and red text?

NOPE, they are about to update it to match our advice! The main site template is OLD.

The template includes a comment that the signage is not prominent, I cannot verify this without doing a 80 mile round trip.

No-one has to verify the signage but you SHOULD leave that sentence in. The template is written deliberately. It's not for you to prove, it's for the PPC to rebut!

Should I continue anyway,

Of course!

or pay up the reduced amount.

Of course NOT!!

If it goes to POPLA do I have a good case?

Currently we always beat ParkingEye at POPLA and we have no reason to think your case will differ. It's not about 'what happened'!

Staarman

Thanks to all for the advice, I posted a short version on their appeals website, as they have a character limit, and attached a full version as per the template. Will let you know how things progress.
Cheers everyone

Staarman

Hi All
Latest update, I have received two letters one is a rejection of my invoice (?) and one telling me my appeal was unsuccessful. The second letter also includes a lengthy justification of the pre-estimate of loss and a couple of pages of examples of cases where they have won, many examples where defendants have used information from “an online forum”.
The letter includes POPLA reference and a POPLA appeals form. This gives me four options for appeal reasons, given the circumstances I have described previously what do you think is the best option? I guess the one "the charge is excessive"? Can anyone please give me some advice on what to do next?.
Also, what’s the worst case if I continue with POPLA?
Thanks

Redx

use the parking cowboys checker to check the code is valid and its expiry date

then use post #3 of the newbies thread to link to popla appeals and draft up an appeal in notepad and post on here for checking , minus personal info

then submit to popla as an attachment , ticking 3 boxes out of the 4 (not the stolen one)

a popla decision is not binding on the motorist / appellant

Stroma

Did they mention all the ones they lost ? Guess not !

Have a look on post #3 of the newbies thread for advice on popla and appealing to them, when you have the wording post it up to make sure it's a winner for you.

Coupon-mad

Staarman wrote: »

Also, what’s the worst case if I continue with POPLA?

Then POPLA would just suggest you paid the PCN even though you wouldn't have to as it's not binding on you (only on PE). Please just read other ParkingEye POPLA examples on the forum in the 'NEWBIES please read these FAQs first' sticky thread, post #3 of it.

We win 100% of the time at POPLA, have done for over a year.

Staarman

Hi All

Thanks for the advice, see my POPLA appeals letter below, please let me know what you think. Thanks everyone.


Dear POPLA
Address

My Details
POPLA Ref: xxxxxxxx

PCN No. xxxxxxxx
Issued: xxxxxxxx
Reg. xxxxxxx
Todays Date XXXXX
I am theregistered keeper of vehicle reg xxx xxxx and Icontend that I am not liable for the parking charge. I wish to appeal againstthe PCN notice on the following grounds.

1) The vehicledid enter the car park at 08:39 am. The car parking notices were not noticed bythe driver, or any of the other occupants of the vehicle. Therefore I believe these were not clear andthat the car park signage does not comply with BPA regulations in terms ofclarity regarding conditions of stay and regarding camera recording being technologyused in this car park.

2) The chargeis a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The £100 charge asked forfar exceeds the cost to the landowner who would have received £0.00 from anyvehicles parked as the car park is free to use for up to 2 hours according tothe PCN notice.

In the appealParking Eye did not address this issue, and has not explicitly stated why theyfeel a £100 charge is an appropriate pre-estimate of loss.

For thischarge to be justified a full breakdown of the costs Parking Eye has sufferedas a result of the car being parked at the car park is required and should addup to £100. Normal expenditure the company incurs to carry on their business(e.g. provision of parking, parking enforcement or signage erection) should notbe included in the breakdown, as these operational costs would have beensuffered irrespective of the car being parked at that car park.

I believethat that the amount of the charge, £100, is disproportionate to the lossincurred by the Operator, and is therefore punitive.

3)Proprietary Interest
As the registered keeper, I do not believe thatParking Eye has demonstrated a proprietary interest in the land, because theyhave no legal possession which would give Parking Eye any right to offerparking spaces, let alone allege a contract with third party customers of thelawful owner/occupiers. In addition, Parking Eye's lack of title in this landmeans they have no legal standing to allege trespass or loss, if that is thebasis of their charge
Theregistered keeper driver believes there is no contract with thelandowner/occupier that entitles them to levy these charges and to pursue themin the courts in their own name as creditor. Therefore this Operator has noauthority to issue parking charge notices (PCNs) which could be BPA Code ofPractice compliant. Any breach of the BPA Code of Practice means that'registered keeper liability' has not been established, since full complianceis a pre-requisite of POFA 2012.''