Speeding Ticket - Appeal?

nist858

I've got my first ever speeding ticket. I was doing 61 in what was apparently a 50 zone on the M25. Now, according to the NIP, I committed the offence of "Exceed(ing a) temporary 50mph restriction on a motorway in road works." I was 'caught' by an "Automatic camera device".

Now, this allegedly occurred at just after 9pm on 22/05/14. However, I don't drive around the M25 often, so I remember that when I did drive there recently I didn't encounter any roadworks. I also do not recall seeing any signs indicating that a 50mph limit was currently in force. It smacks to me of a case of Essex Police 'forgetting' to turn the camera off (or readjust it to the normal limit) after the roadworkers had packed up and gone home for the night.

Now, I was wondering whether or not it would be worth my while appealing this ticket on the grounds that it might have been issued in contravention of the laws that require there to be signs on both sides of the road to indicate the beginning of a speed limit - or something to that effect; I'd have to look up the exact wording of the regs, but I'm pretty sure that if I'm right about the absence of signs indicating a 50 limit then that would be grounds to have the ticket revoked.

I've been doing a bit of research on this, and most sites advise to go and 'gather evidence' of the lack of signage. However, as I'm not a Time Lord, this would be a bit difficult to do. Even if the roadworks are still ongoing (not sure if this is the case) and even if I were to drive around the same section of the M25 at 4pm and 9pm on the same day and get a friend to be a passenger and take photos (which would be difficult to do safely in the absence of traffic which allowed me to safely drive at a low enough speed for my friend to take clear photos - unlikely to get this at 9pm) which prove that the 50mph limit is indicated clearly at 4pm but not at 9pm (thus establishing that the roadworkers pack up and go home between these times, taking their signs with them), I can still see Essex Police retorting with some variation on "Well, they worked late on the 22nd of May!" or maybe "They left their signs out overnight that night," etc.

I also have to take into consideration the fact that there's a good chance I'll be offered the chance to do a Speed Awareness course instead. If I could guarantee that I will be offered this, then I would probably just accept the NIP. My partner was caught doing 59 over the Dartford Crossing a while back (it's a 50 at all times) and he got to just do the course and avoid the points. I was wondering if there is a cutoff point of 10mph above the limit for doing the course? If there is, then that would mean I might get points instead of an offer to do the course. As a young driver, my insurance is high enough as it is without getting points on my licence. So the main thing for me is which route would give me the best chance of avoiding the points? And how could I go about 'collecting evidence' if I decide to go down the appeals route?

As an aside, did anyone else drive on the M25 (J27 to J26 Anti-Clockwise) at around the same time as I got caught? Did you notice any indicators of the temporary 50 limit? If so, then I'll just take my NIP on the chin and let Essex Police deal with me as they may.

Dee140157

I think you need to go over to pepipoo.com to ask advie on this one. They are more knowledgeable on this sort of question.

nist858

Thanks for the info. I was googling to find a site like that for ages, but didn't come across that one. So a mod can delete this thread if they like? If not, I'll report back with any results/advice.

Johno100

nist858 wrote: »

I also have to take into consideration the fact that there's a good chance I'll be offered the chance to do a Speed Awareness course instead. If I could guarantee that I will be offered this, then I would probably just accept the NIP. My partner was caught doing 59 over the Dartford Crossing a while back (it's a 50 at all times) and he got to just do the course and avoid the points. I was wondering if there is a cutoff point of 10mph above the limit for doing the course? If there is, then that would mean I might get points instead of an offer to do the course. As a young driver, my insurance is high enough as it is without getting points on my licence. So the main thing for me is which route would give me the best chance of avoiding the points? And how could I go about 'collecting evidence' if I decide to go down the appeals route?

While I can't find anything for Essex police, in a 50 zone you can usually be offered a speed awareness course up to 64mph.

Here's the link with the various speeds for Sussex and North Yorkshire.

http://www.sussexsaferroads.gov.uk/the-speed-awareness-course.html

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/11056

HO87

@nist858

What you have at present, I suspect, is simply a Notice of Intended Prosecution. This document does two things:

1. Notifies you that the driver of the vehicle at the time is suspected of having committed a relevant offence (not all driving offences require the service of a NIP).
2. Demands that you identify the driver - what is known as a s.172 requirement.

There is nothing to appeal at the moment - there is no accusation. Until such time as you complete the form and return it there will be no formal "accusation" if you like. Assuming that you will identify yourself as the driver then until you are offered either a speed awareness course; a conditional offer of fixed penalty or receive a summons there is nothing to appeal.

You are perfectly at liberty to decline the offer of a fixed penalty or a course but the only appeal route in respect of either of them is via the magistrates court. Speeding is a strict liability offence which means that there is no requirement that the prosecution adduces evidence to show that the driver deliberately or even carelessly exceeded the limit. It is sufficient to prove the offence that they can show that a vehicle was detected at a certain speed, that this was in excess of the limit and that subsequently, Joe Bloggs was identified as the driver. Defending such a case is difficult and can only be based on:

a. The driver has been identified in error - clearly not the case here.
b. The limit was either not signed, insufficiently signed or the area delimited was not in accordance with the Traffic Management Order.
c. The equipment used to detect the offence was defective.
d. Some other procedural error - NIP not served within 14 days (The only NIP that must be served within 14 days is the first one to the registered keeper) and there are permitted exceptions to this.

Proving that signage was not in order at a point some weeks later is going to be very difficult - the more so as you have no recollection of the limit. The same applies to potentially faulty equipment. The particular difficulty here is that the prosecution will only supply evidence of the operation (or otherwise) of the equipment once the driver has entered a "not guilty" plea at court. Some police forces used to make certificates of conformity etc available on line but I do not know whether Essex do so.

Conviction at court will leave you open to a substantially greater fine. These are determined based on a multiplier of your "relevant weekly income" (which equates to gross salary minus tax and NI calculated on a weekly basis) plus the addition of costs - even for guilty pleas these are now often at a minimum of £85 and the Victim Support Levy. Not guilty pleas will see costs increase substantially.

The important thing here is, regardless of what you ultimately decide to do, do not forget to return the form, correctly completed and signed within the 28 days permitted. Failure to do so or any effort at what might be viewed as equivocation on the form is likely to see you receive a summons for failure to furnish the details. The problem with this is that it carries a mandatory 6 points and usually a significant fine (often now around £400-450). That in itself is not the real problem. Insurers dislike the endorsement code - MS90 - viewing it as an offence that displays elements of dishonesty. Premiuims are often loaded and in some cases insurers have terminated cover which makes obtaining further cover even more difficult.

Hope you feel better informed.

The_Slithy_Tove

Wot HO87 said - very good summary.

If you want to take it further, the best place to go is Pepipoo's forum. Read the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky first.